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Oh Mel, Kris can understand me better because I talk sense-----you left yourself wide open for that one

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

I did didn't I!

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

Thanks Mel
Well one of the witnesses was a Sarah Leaver. Olive had a sister Sarah who would have been 18 at the time of the marriage. Is that old enough to be a witness?
The other one's another one of those ubiquitous Kippaxes - but I can't tell which.
Gloria, the John you've found is one of Olive's brothers, so the Bunister (Bannister) is her nephew named after his grandfather and the Olive was her niece.
But you've reminded me now. Olive and John had 2 sons, Bannister & Robert. Which looks to me like they named a child after each of their fathers.
It's so frustrating - I'm really sure that Olive Nutter was Bannister Leaver's daughter but no matter how I try I can't prove it to my master's standards! And then there's Alice. . .
Mind you have to be careful with Alice. They say that's what Christopher Robin went down with

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Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Maureen, I do wish you wouldn't. Especially when I have just slurped my coffee! It makes scuh a mess when I splutter!

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

They used to name them after their parents, grandparents. I once had it explained how they did it. I think it was his father, her father, her mother, his mother but not 100% sure. Then with loads of children in the family it got quite complicated, but there was a rule to it though. Does anyone know it?

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

The tradition was
1st son = father's father
2nd son = mother's father
3rd son = father
4th son = father's oldest brother
5th son = father's 2nd oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

1st dau = mother's mother
2nd dau = father's mother
3rd dau = mother
4th dau = mother's oldest sister
5th dau = mother's 2nd oldest sister or father's oldest sister

They were not allowed more than 5 of each sex

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

Thankyou Mel, always worth remembering that.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

I once read that it was originally an irish tradition but I have more evidence of it in my non-irish lot.

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

Very interesting read that, Olive and John Nutter are my GGG Grandparents, when I was doing my research I was tearing my hair out trying to find Olive because I needed her maiden name to continue the research- do we actually know her former name was Leaver? Also could she have been called Alice Olive and decided later to use her Middle name? this has happened more than once in my family tree.

Ooh Claret, I wish you hadn't dug this one up again. It messes with my head every time I look at it

In a nutshell, I have no absolute proof that Olive Nutter's maiden name was Leaver. The only record I've ever found of Olive Leaver was her birth in the Haggate Chapel birth records. No trace anywhere of the birth of the Alice Leaver named on John Nutter's marriage certificate.

I do believe that Alice Leaver and Olive Leaver were the same person and that there is a mistake in the marriage record but you'll have to make up your own mind about this.

My reasoning is based on the following:
1. Olive Nutter and Olive Leaver have the same birth year.
2. They have the same father.
3. There is no record of the birth of Alice Leaver or the death of Alice Nutter - the only reference I can find to her anywhere is the marriage.
4. The marriage was in 1840. By 1841 John is with Olive. It's unlikely that the woman he married in 1840 would already be dead and replaced by then - but I accept it's not impossible.
5. John and Olive's first child has the same name as Olive Leaver's father - Bannister.
6. There are 2 Leaver children (I don't know whose) on the 1841 census and one of them (Abraham) is still with them in 1851. This suggests some realtionship with the Leaver family. (By the way, I've looked at Abraham's marriage record but no father is named. He can't be one of Olive Leaver's siblings as her mother died before Abraham was born).


As I say, you pays your money . . .

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Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Thanks Portia, my wife wrote down Alice/Olive a few times at different speeds and styles and at a glance a couple of them could be mistaken for one or the other. I had a great Aunt called Alice and when I researched her I couldn`t find her on the 1901 or 1911 census, it was only when I got her death details up using her surname (I knew the year and Month-1973) it was Mary, so back on the 1901 and 1911 census I found Mary Alice-bingo. However I don`t think in the early 1800`s many children were given two names. By the way the great Aunt I was researching was Mary Alice Rawcliffe and she was the grandaughter of Alice/Olive Nutter, so there is another Alice there !!!

Got the last bit wrong regarding my Great Aunt Mary Alice, Portia, she is the Grandaughter of Robert Nutter and therefore the Great Grandaughter of Olive Nutter.
Claret.

olive and john are my great great grandparents, I would like to meet up with similar relatives to share family info