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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:03 pm 
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I'll have a look on the newspaper site to see if anything crops up but there search system isn't the best. Must be difficult though with the old print.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:48 pm 
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The nearest reference so far -

Preston Chronicle
Saturday January 20 1838

Lecture

On Thursday evening the Rev. William Giles delivered his second lecture in Leeming-street Chapel, "on the claims of the book of Mormon to Divine inspiration and the spirit and claims of his advoactes." The Rev. gentleman dealt very ably with his subject, and was listened to during a long and argumentative lecture with the most marked attention. The attendance was more numerous than last week.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:56 pm 
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charon10 wrote:
Mel,

I'm sure you've thought of this, but I'll ask anyway: is there anything in the Lancashire newspapers of 1837-8 or 1841-2 about the LDS missions? Judging from the number of conversions in the next few years,they must have attracted a good deal of attention (if not quite on the scale of the Billy Graham missions!) - and the quote I posted earlier mentions opposition by the established churches, which might have been reported.

By the way, it's true that not many Cof E churches are being built now, but then there are rather more than 128 already! Not surprising, with a good few centuries of head start over the LDS.

Charon


I've found quite a few references listed as 'Correspondence'. It is just that, people writing into the Preston Chronicle with what seems to be their opinions. All dated around 1838 so far.
I'll select a few over the coming days to add here.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:26 pm 
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my word Mel,
you're a quick worker! I found the following at: http://www.mormonhistoricsitesregistry. ... istory.htm

The first LDS missionaries to Great Britain arrived in England in July 1837 and felt prompted to first journey to Preston. While there, they preached three times in the Vauxhall Chapel and several individuals petitioned them for baptism.

The first baptisms in England occurred on July 30, 1837 where nine individuals were baptized in the River Ribble in the presence of approximately eight-thousand onlookers. By August 6, nearly fifty individuals had been converted and Elder Heber C. Kimball organized a branch in Preston

Perhaps that gives you something to search on - anyway a date!

Charon


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Wow eight thousand onlookers in 1837, I think that is amazing.
Well done for finding this info Charon.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:06 pm 
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8,000! Crikey! What was the population count of the area then I wonder?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Google can find answers to almost anything:

Preston (St. John)

PRESTON (St. John), a parish, and the head of a union, in the hundred of Amounderness, N. division of the county of Lancaster; comprising the borough of Preston, which has a separate jurisdiction; the six townships of Barton, Elston, Fishwick, Haighton, Ribbleton, and Lea with Ashton, Ingol, and Cottam; and the chapelries of Broughton, and Grimsargh with Brockholes; the whole containing, in the year 1841, 53,482 inhabitants, of whom 50,073 were in the borough, 21 miles (S. by E.) from Lancaster, and 217 (N. W. by N.) from London.

from : http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=51223

Charon


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:56 am 
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Thanks, Charon. I have not read that particular book. I'll give it a go.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:43 am 
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charon10 wrote:
It was not fair of me to compare the number of LDS Temples with the number of C of E churches - Temples, if I'm not mistaken, are more like Cathedrals. I see there are about 20 LDS Chapels in Lancashire alone, though I think that may be the greatest number in any UK County.

Charon


Hi Charon,

Briefly, LDS chapels are for Sunday worship services, Sunday School, others meeting for children, teens and adults on Sunday, and other meetings or social gatherings held during the week. All such meeting are open to all, members or not.

LDS Temples provide further learning about God and His gospel, and allow participation in special ordinances and covenants made with God, such as Temple Marriage. Only active adult members of the Church may attend temples, and then only on recommendation of their local ecclesiastical leader, the Bishop of their ward (congregation).

If you choose, you may visit http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/ for more information about the Church.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:02 pm 
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Venita,

thanks for that useful explanation. I imagine that, at least in the early years of the LDS Church, many of its members must never have visited a Temple - especially those outside the USA. Much more of a deprivation for them than for say an Anglican who never visited a Cathedral, though I realise that in any case only a minority of LDS mambers are found worthy to enter a Temple.

Charon


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:35 pm 

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Location: cambridge
I've long been interested in British Mormon history : my antecedents in South Lancs joined and some emigrated.

The Burnley branch dates from 1839. On the Family Search website, in the Family History Library Catalogue (FHLC), there are lists of available records of membership for many branches, which can be ordered on microfilm to view at a Mormon Family History Centre. I did much of this many years ago for my folks, maybe the technology has moved on. A 3-gt-grandfather was ordained an Elder, in Manchester, by no less than Parley P. Pratt, one of the leading early missionaries, one of the 'twelve apostles'. He later emigrated, but after a few years in Pittsburgh, he died on the plains en route to Utah. Two of his daughters in Utah married the same man (same day !), another married a man with about seven wives. I could go on !

I did in fact find when I looked out of just curiosity that my 3-gt-grandfather's brother Levi WATSON and family were members at Burnley, also possibly a daughter. Levi died in 1850 and is buried at Haggate, like most of the rest of my WATSONs.

There is British LDS Society (Google it), though I have the impression it hasn't got too far off the ground. There are also some good books on the Mormons in Britain, and the emigration process :

Expectations Westward, Taylor (British researcher, the rest here are American)

Saints on the Seas, Sonne

Men with a Mission (various)

Mormons in Early Victorian Britain, Jensen and Thorpe.

The newspaper/journal Millenial Star, from 1840, is a mine of information. Probably in a Manchester library, or maybe digitally online by now.

If anyone wants to know more, do ask !

Rex


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:13 am 
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Preston Chronicle

18 August 1838

Mormonism
To The Public

While I rejoice to see such abundant means provided for the religious instruction of the population of this town, I cannot, without deep regret, witness the counteracting influence of certain heresies and dogmas which are now so industriously propagated, chiefly among the more illiterate portion of the inhabitants. So long as the commonly received doctrines and precepts of christianity are adhered to - whatever difference of opinion may exist as to the non-essential points - the excellent principle laid down by the Apostle Paul in his Epistle to the Phillippians, (chap. 1, verse 18th,) may be safely applied. "What then," says he, "notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is preached, and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." But when doctrines are advanced in direct violation of truth and common sense, and calculated also to seduce the simple-minded and the ignorant into the source of error and delusion, it is high time for an enlightened public to speak out - to express their abhorrence of such procedure, and endeavour to arrest its progress. This remark bears upon the newly-formed systems of Owenism and Mormonism, but more especially upon the latter. As to the Owenites they honestly declare themselves to be what in reality they are - viz., downright infidels from principle. On the other hand, the Mormonites introduce themselves under the specious pretence of superior sanctity and religious knowledge, and by this means artfully contrive to pass off a base counterfeit for genuine christianity. From what motive certain individuals professing to partizanship in the Mormon heresy, choose to afford them encouragement, by allowing them the use of the Cock-pit for holding their meetings, is not easily to be imagined. The mischief produced by such facilities being furnished is incalculable. To afford such accommodations from the idea of showing fair play, is something like giving an opportunity to a maniac to practice his freaks without hesitation. The uproarious scenes exhibited last Sunday evening at the above-named place, were such as to excite feelings of disgust in every sober mind. The pamphlet just printed by Mr. J. Livesey, from America, as an exposure of the blasphemous system of Mormonism, containing statements which rest upon the most satisfactory evidence was introduced to the audience. An attempt was made to refute the factstherein stated, but a more complete failure was surely never witnessed; not a single fact was disproved - the whole of the pretended refutation could be considered as nothing more than a mere animadversion or a verbal denial of facts which defy all contradiction - the scene that followed was disgraceful in any point of view - but in connection with a professed religious service, it was intolerable. Angry words, threatenings, and uproar, were nearly succeeded by blows, and the whole spectacle was one of confusion and spite. I know not by whose sufferance these ultra "Saints" are permitted to hold their meetings in the Cock-pit, but it is to be hoped that the parties owning the place, from a conviction of the pernicious effects resulting from such meetings, will see the propriety of discharging them forthwith.
AN IMPARTIAL OBSERVER
Preston, August 16th, 1838.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:24 am 
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Everything I have found so far is similar to the above post. I have found no reference to the Burnley area.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:02 am 
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Many thanks, Mel and Rex

I find this whole story quite fascinating - whatever one thinks of the religious content!

Charon


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:05 am 
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It would be interesting to find something more local to Burnley but that would probably be in the more local newspapers. The site I am using gives the Preston Chronicle (later the Preston Guardian), I guess the nearest of the bigger papers.

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