Sorry!! I had got him in 1871 - just hadn't copied the reference from his parents file to his file and didn't check before posting the message....sorry.
Thanks to both and also Charon for the email
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| Author: | Mel [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thomas Sutcliffe |
Can anyone help please? I have a Thomas Sutcliffe born about 1859 in Burnley (Wood). This is the 1861 census for him with his parents. He is the youngest child. RG9/3069 folio107 page4 8 Wood Terrace Back, Habergham Eaves, Lancashire Thomas Sutcliffe,head,49,carpenter,b.Barrowford Mary,wife,48,b.Barrowford James,son,20,cotton weaver,b.Barrowford Betty,dau,18,cotton weaver,b.Barrowford Henry,son,17,cotton weaver,b.Barrowford Sutcliffe,son,15,cotton weaver,b.Barrowford Joseph,son,13,jobber at foundry,b.Barrowford Sarah,dau,11,scholar,b.Barrowford Rushton,son,9,scholar,b.Barrowford Thomas,son,2,b.Burnley Wood He is not with his family in 1871, not sure where he is but if anyone can find him I'd be grateful. Then things go a little odd. I believe he married a Mary Alice Heyslop in 1879 at Burnley Catholic Church. The info on the marriage cert fits with the Thomas in my tree. They have a strange relationship though. In 1881, he is lodging RG11/4147 folio57 pg29 13 Tentre St, Burnley Thomas Sutcliffe Lodger 22 cabinet worker b.Burnley. His wife is boarding elsewhere RG11/4146 folio 153 pg 8 Lodger at 53 Eliza St, Burnley Mary Alice Sutcliffe, Lodger M 25 cotton winder b.Burnley Margaret Sutcliffe lodger 5mo b.Burnley I cannot find him at all in 1891. His wife, however, states she is a widow. I don't believe this to be the case as he reappears in 1901. RG12/3360 folio 43 pg 17 13 1/2 Pickup Court, Burnley Mary Alice Sutcliffe Head Wid 30 Cotton winder b.Burnley Maggie dau 10 scholar b.Burnley Florrie dau 8 scholar b.Burnley Lily dau 6mo b.Burnley In 1901, again they live separately both claiming to be single. RG13/3885 folio 103 pg 6 Lodger at 44 Bk Greenfield Road, Colne Thomas Sutcliffe Boarder S 40 joiner b.Burnley His wife RG13/3866 folio 39 pg 14 16 Jib Hill Burnley Maggie Sutcliffe Head S 20 cotton weaver b.Burnley Mary A Sutcliffe Mother Wid 43 Cotton winder b.Burnley Elizabeth A sister S 16 Cotton weaver b.Burnley Lily sister S 9 b.Burnley May sister 7 b.Burnley Around the corner from Thomas is the daughter, Flo. RG13/3885 folio 104 pg 7 Lodger at 30 Greenfield Road, Colne Florence Sutcliffe Boarder S 18 Cotton weaver b.Burnley Mary Alice died in June 1908. Thomas remarried in September of 1908, giving his marital status as widower. He can be found with his new wife and a couple more kids on the 1911 census in Colne. Can anyone find him in 1871 and 1891 please? |
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| Author: | Gloria [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
1871 27 Eliza St Burnley--is this not him with his mother, father and some of the siblings in the 1861 Thomas Sutcliffe 59 Mary Sutcliffe 58 Joseph Sutcliffe 23 Sarah Sutcliffe 21 Thomas Sutcliffe 12 Dyson Sutcliffe 1 |
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| Author: | portia [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
You beat me to it Gloria! |
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| Author: | Mel [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Sorry!! I had got him in 1871 - just hadn't copied the reference from his parents file to his file and didn't check before posting the message....sorry. Thanks to both and also Charon for the email
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
And for once I thought I'd found something you couldn't. Should've known better. |
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| Author: | Mel [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Today I will hammer the 1891 census. I suppose it's possible he went overseas and came home again - like Kim Cattrells grandfather did? |
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Have you noticed that Elizabeth Ann is missing from 1891? May be a clue? Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1884. SUTCLIFFE Elizabeth Ann at Burnley. Records at Preston BU/158/9 Added later - have now found a possible Elizabeth A in the workhouse, aged 6. No indication as to why. Did it operate as a hospital at that time? Still no sign of Thomas tho. |
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| Author: | Mel [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
The only possibility is a soldier based in Hampshire who gives his age as 27. His age does vary a little from census to census but I'm not sure if that is him? Elizabeth Ann was in the workhouse 1891 RG12/3372 folio123 pg 13 Burnley Workhouse Elizabeth A Sutcliffe Inmate 6 b.Burnley |
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
I looked at that one Mel but then I checked out Lancs bmd. There was a Thomas Sutcliffe born Burnley 1863. Between 1859 & 1864 ther was only one other (1860) which I assume was yours. |
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| Author: | Mel [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
I also looked at deaths Maureen, in case I was barking up completely the wrong tree, but there are none between 1881 and 1901 that would fit. I am in contact with someone in the US who is researching on behalf of Elizabeth Anns grandson. She provided the original marriage and then the rest we found between us. According to what I have found, Thomas died in 1931. I don't think I am 100% convinced that this is him throughout but it was an odd marriage apparently. |
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Very odd! |
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
I checked out Thomas 1863/4 and found him on every census. So the soldier on 1891 is definitely not yours. |
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| Author: | Mel [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Thanks Maureen. Maybe he did go overseas then? |
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| Author: | portia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
Unless he was in prison - I think some prisons didn't record full names. Can't get my head round what was going on tho. It's almost as if they separated not long after the marriage and maybe put that they were widowed/ single because it was more respectable than being separated. Especially if one or both were catholic. But if so whose were all the children? |
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| Author: | Mel [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Thomas Sutcliffe |
We assume the kids were his. She was the Catholic. Divorce would have been unheard of in those days for 'normal' folk. I think I might order Maggie's marriage certificate to see what it says. Thomas's second wife was a bit younger than him. I assume they had one daughter prior to the marriage as her name is listed on the 1911 as Winfield (mums maiden name) and one after marriage. The only thing on the second marriage certificate that throws me a little is that he lists is father as 'joiner (journeyman)'. Would the journeyman part mean he travelled? He didn't leave the Burnley district at all to my knowledge but he was a joiner. |
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