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 Post subject: Grocers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:05 am 
Spider Lady
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Location: Staffordshire
I have received this by email. Can anyone help please?

My g.grandfather, Albert Arthur Lloyd (1869-1945), was a grocer in Burnley since he moved to the town from Bolton in the 1890s until he retired to Blackpool (not sure when). He had been a grocer\'s manager in Bolton and continued as a grocer\'s manager in Burnley until sometime between 1916 & 1924 when he opened his own grocery store at 138 Colne Road (my father says it was called \"The Canister\").
He lived at 243 Colne Road (1901 census), then 37 Briercliffe Road (c 1904), then 118 Browhead Road (c 1907 & 1911 census).
Does anyone know anything about the history of the local grocery trade? I would think as a grocer\'s manager he would have been employed by one of the co-operative or multiple grocery stores. Were there any in the immediate area?
I seem to have found out as much as I can from a distance and, as I\'m unable to visit to find out more locally, I\'d appreciate any assistance that society members may be able to offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ceredigion
Hi - just to say hello and thanks to Mel for posting my email.
I'm trying to write up the lives & times of 2 of my g grandfathers as a gift for my parents. My mother's maternal grandfather was a Sheffield steelworker (a sheepshear forger) who moved to Blackpool to become a policeman, and I have quite a lot of information about him. My father's maternal grandfather (Albert Arthur Lloyd) was a grocer who moved from Bolton to Burnley and (as outlined in Mel's posting) set up his own grocery store at 138 Colne Road before retiring to Blackpool - probably just before the war but I'm not sure - and I have less detailed information about his life story.
I live in SW Wales and can't get away to see what other information is available locally about Albert himself or the local grocery trade. I think I've exhausted the information available about Albert and his family from the census and records of births, marriages & deaths. I also have a trade directory entry from 1924. Apart from this and his occupation, the only other clue I have is that he was a Methodist and may well have attended local churches.
It would be great if anyone knows about his grocery store (possibly called "The Canister") just north of the Duke Bar bottle store shown in the 1906 Frith photo and the postcard described in Roger Frost's article (April 2011). I believe there's a discount booze store now where the grocery store used to be but it would be amazing if there were any photos of it when it was a grocery store. I'd also be fascinated to hear about any co-operative or multiple grocery stores that used to be in the locality which Albert might have managed and it would be wonderful if anyone could find anything to link him to any of those stores.
I know the odds are stacked against me finding such a breakthrough to help fill in these gaps in my lives & times project, but I live in hope and I'd be more than happy to share the finished work with society members.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
The building for the Duke Bar Branch No1 of the Co-op is still standing but now used as a Snooker Hall etc; It is quite an impressive building and can be seen on Google maps. Sorry but that's all I know.


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:17 am 
Computer Whizz
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I know the Co-op was very popular around the Burnley area, but wasn't there also Redmans?--- that rings a bell with my other half, he thought it was more "up market" than the Co-op.
May be worth e-mailing Burnley Library as they might have some history of both these.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
Although I have only a very limited access from home you may be interested in these findings.
1905 Trade directory gives 138 Colne Rd as a Grocers occupied by J H Lupton. A 1949 directory shows 138 Colne Rd as a Co-op Stores / Fruitrs.
This block of houses / shops was called St Andrews Terrace built 1868. Hope it helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ceredigion
Plaques & Gloria - many thanks for your info. I'll try and find out more about the Redmans stores. In the meantime, the J H Lupton entries in the 1905 Kelly's directory might have provided the sort of breakthrough I was hoping for. My father recollects that Albert Lloyd saw the co-operative stores as "the enemy" - not surprising since (as Plaques has shown) the first Burnley Co-operative Society store was 100 yds or less from his store at 138 Colne Road. I've also read about how independent grocers mounted a national campaign from the turn of the century to villify the Co-op such was it's commercial advantage. Dad also had a vague memory of Albert working for Lipton's (the national multiple chain of grocers started by Thomas Lipton in Glasgow, I think). Sounds like Albert might well have worked not for Liptons, but for James Henry Lupton (who, according to the trade directories, had numerous stores in Burnley and in other Lancashire towns) and that he may have bought the store at 138 Colne Road off him. I'm hoping that J H Lupton's may also have had a store or stores in Bolton and that Albert "transferred" to Burnley.
Why would Albert have bought a grocery store so close to such a large competitor as the co-operative store? As Gloria suggests, there were probably different "classes" of custom which independent, multiple and co-operative stores appealed to in those class conscious days. Looking at the directories I'm struck by the number of grocers in a relatively small area. In 1905 there were grocers at 42, 44, 71, 78, 105, 106 & 138 Colne Road as well as the first Burnley Co-operative Society store and Brierfield Co-operative & Industrial Society stores at 16-20 and 63 Colne Road. Local shopping must really have been LOCAL shopping then. Presumably shopping had to be done every day or two for many commodities as there was no refrigeration and there were fewer tinned goods. Also the amount that could be bought was limited by how much could be carried home either by the shopper or the grocer's lad.
Many thanks - this has given me a number of promising leads to follow up. I'd also welcome hearing from anyone who knows any more about James Henry Lupton & his stores, the Burley Co-operative Society or the Brierfield Co-operative & Industrial Society (secretary shown as James Swallow in 1905).

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
From the Barrett's directories at Burnley library.
This may be useful

1923 138 Colne Rd. Altham A Ltd tea dealers
1923 138 Colne Rd Lloyd A A Grocer

1927/8 136 Colne Rd Altham A Ltd tea dealers
1927/8 138 Colne Rd Lloyd A A Grocer

1933 136 Colne Rd. Altham A Ltd tea dealers
1933 138 Colne Rd Lloyd A A Grocer

1937 136 Colne Rd. Altham A Ltd tea dealers
1937 138 Colne Rd Co-op Grocer And Fruiter

I think the first entry giving Altham's and Lloyds the same address was a mistake since there wasn't an entry for No 136 Colne Rd


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:04 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ceredigion
Thanks, Plaques - this is very useful info. I really appreciate the trouble you've taken to find it out.
Meanwhile I've managed to trace James Henry Lupton (1867-1954) the son of a Rawtenstall greengrocer. He worked in the mills as a child, set up as a grocer after his father died, then moved to Accrington. He had 3 grocery stores in 1895 in Rawtenstall, Accrington & Brierfield (42 Colne Rd) and by 1905 had added at least 8 more (a 2nd store in Accrington and 7 more in the Burnley area). He may well have had stores further afield as there was one as far away as Leeds in 1908. By the 1920s he had moved to St Annes on Sea where he set up a company manufacturing children's shoes and in 1923 he went to Canada for 3 months to try to establish a market there for his footwear. It's interesting that Albert Arthur Lloyd took over the shop at 138 Colne Road just as James Henry Lupton was developing his new business, suggesting that the latter had sold the store to the manager. Maybe he'd withdrawn entirely from the grocery trade by then.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
Posts: 462
Yes Gloria, Redmans were a more up market store/shop/ chain of shops.

Son was as far as I can remember was a well known racing car celeb. in the 60's.

There is a side road named after the family, along side the Oaks \Hotel in Reedley.


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:53 pm 
Computer Whizz
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:28 am
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Location: Near Chorley
Yes--- Brian Redman.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
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Wasn't one of their shops at the bottom of Standish St area, a good deli. and near Sutcliffe's who kitted us out for school and Pollards piano's?

There was a more recent one still in the market hall ?


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
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Gordon. I know I may be drifting off your original query. But the store at 136 Colne rd sounds like it was owned by Abraham Altham the tea supplier - grocer - travel agent. Originally from Haggate. He went on to be a very successful business man building "Oakleigh" in Reedley (now the Oaks) and was a prominent Baptist and local philanthropist. His expansion of his grocery business almost mirrors what you have described about J H Lupton. I begin to wonder whether Altham and Lupton were not in some sort of unofficial partnership.

A fuller account of Abraham Altham can be found in "Who was Who in Burnley" by the Burnley and District Historical Society 1997. of which Roger Frost was a contributor.


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:01 am 
Genealogist in Waiting
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Location: Richards Landing, Ontario, Canada
Very interesting reading this. When I visited Briercliffe a year ago from Canada, and visited the Briercliffe Society meeting and finally met Mel and Maureen, I stayed at the Altham's beautiful home,now a hotel called "the Oaks". It was quite impressive. The receptionist very kindly printed out for me a history and bio of Mr. Altham, which they have in the reception area in a binder. Well worth a visitif yhou are in the area.


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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:47 am
Posts: 12
Location: Ceredigion
Many thanks to everyone for responding. I'm keen to learn as much as I can about the grocery trade in the area so the Redmans and Althams are useful leads to follow up. I've also spotted a Thomas Marsden who (in 1895) had 7 grocery stores in Burnley and 1 in Nelson. It seems that J H Lupton may have had some recognition apart from his directory entries - I'm told that a James Henry Lupton was mayor of Accrington in 1916/17.

I wonder if anyone can clarify the Colne Road numbering for me. I’ve just found that the Lupton’s store at 42 Colne Road wasn’t south of 138 Colne Road (as I’d assumed) but was north of it. This shows up my ignorance of the area, but I guess that, although it’s on the same road, it’s 42 Colne Road, Brierfield. If anyone’s interested there’s a 1915 photo of this store (although described as no 40 which I think must be an error) which can be seen online in the Lancashire Lantern collection. I suppose the Brierfield Co-op addresses I mentioned previously must also be on the Colne Road, Brierfield. But what about the stores at 44, 71 & 78? Kelly’s Directory for 1895 doesn’t always distinguish between Burnley & Brierfield addresses.

On the subject of addresses, I notice that Thomas Lipton had premises at 13 or 15 Market Street, Burnley (this might have been more of a tea & provision merchants than a grocery store). I haven’t been able to find a Market Street and it may have been in an area which has been redeveloped (as many old market areas have been). A local directory for 1896 locates the street in relation to St James Street, and as there’s a St James Street in the centre of Burnley which appears to be a pedestrianised thoroughfare within a large shopping centre, I think that Market Street may well have been within the area of this development.

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 Post subject: Re: Grocers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm 
Computer Whizz
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Location: Near Chorley
Market St was re-named Manchester Rd in May 1867 after alterations.

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