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Hi Stephen,
The info is taken from the BVRI discs,not the IGI. There are additional children listed on the discs for Alexander,but non for Henry.Some of the material on the discs is not included on the IGI.
Gilly

From St Bartholomews Baptisms
Alexander 12th July 1611 father Johis
Edward 6th April 1606 father Johis
Richard 21st Feb 1602 father Johanis of Marsden
Richard July 1604 father Johis
? March 1609 father Johis of ?

From The History of Marsden and Nelson
"The names of some of the copyholders of the oxgang lands show that they had been acquired before 1438 by fairly wealthy farmers"-----it names one as William Kippax.
From the same book
"Scholefield. This farm is probably the oldest existing farm in Little Marsden, since it's name suggests a Norse origin. From 1300-1600 it was tenanted by a family named Kippax, of whom the first recorded member is Richard Kippax, who in 1323 held an oxgang and 6 acres."
There are many other references in this book to early Kippax members.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Just to get back to Stephen's original query, here is Sarah Kippax in the 1841, it does say they were all born in the county, which is Yorkshire.
Name Age
William Kipper 25
Elen Kipper 25
Robert Kipper 5
Elizabeth Kipper 2
William Kipper 2 Mo
Sarah Kipper 15

I have the original image Stephen, if you send me your e-mail address by PM I will forward it to you.
Gloria

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

I wonder if William and Sarah Bray went to Litherland, with a view to sailing to America from Liverpool. Maybe they did go and came back as quite a few did, or changed their minds and decided to settle in Liverpool. Sounds feasible to me.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Gloria,

I've not found the 'born in County' column of the 1841 census to be entirely reliable on every occasion, and given how everything fits so perfectly - William was a similar age to Ellen, their first kids were Robert, Elizabeth and William, etc. I decided to go with it as 'fact'...

Interesting theory re: Mr. and Mrs. Bray travelling to America, but I feel that I'd have heard about it somewhere. In 1866, they're still in Holmfirth, and their Scouse son is born in the Summer of 1868 in Litherland. 1871 they're living in the delightfully named 'Canal Cottage' and are there in 1873, 1876 and 1878 Directories (the only ones I've yet found) before, in January 1879, both William and Sarah pop their clogs on the very same day. Horrible story. Young Alfred was just 11 at the time.

Maybe they did have an intention of moving to America, but I very much doubt that they did make it there. I don't think the health of William and Sarah would have been up to it, I can't see where it would fit in with the Directories and censuses, and also, I'm sure I would have heard it from somewhere. Although Alf's a figure dating way back (1868-1939), I feel that "Oh yeah, he spent a year in America as a baby" would have somehow been passed down.

In the same way that the story of his pet penguin was.

Wonder if they were going to go to America and then found out she was pregnant and stayed put Don't suppose you are ever going to sort that one out.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Interesting suggestion!

I should probably get Alf's birth certificate at some point. It might help shed light on things. Also, knowing the month that the Brays were still in residence in Holmfirth in 1867 might help.

Another mystery that needs ironing out is how Sarah's son John ended up meeting - and marrying - her niece, Mary K from Lane Ends. They were married at Hope Chapel.

"Scholefield. This farm is probably the oldest existing farm in Little Marsden, since it's name suggests a Norse origin. From 1300-1600 it was tenanted by a family named Kippax, of whom the first recorded member is Richard Kippax, who in 1323 held an oxgang and 6 acres."

Hmm, I wonder whereabouts this 1323 record is to be found? If the early Kippaxes really are fairly well off, then perhaps they are traceable from this ridiculously early period through to our early 17th Century Kippaxes...?

They were tenants.
" and also guilty of making illegal enclosures from the wastes and also of making unlawful pits from which they dug and sold coal: these pits were almost certainly on Black Hill and along the present road to Haggate. The value of Scholefield with its eleven and a half acres may be judged from the fact that in 1561 it was leased for 21 years at a rent of 37s. a year, the lessee agreeing to pay also the lord's rent of 3s. 10d."

It's a very interesting book if you can get hold of one.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Very interesting stuff, as you say.

The trouble with these small-print (and usually quite old) local history books is, indeed, that they are damned difficult to get hold of.

Wearing my Irish Genealogist hat, I do look-ups for other people in one such book that I have relating to a small village in Tipperary. I'm listed on a website as are several other people who do 'look-ups' from various other books based in North Tipperary. Has any thought been given to establishing a similar service here...?

There is a 'books' topic and we tend to mention the books we have acquired.

It's never been offered as a 'look-up service' but we do check what we have as a resource whenever anyone pops along with a query.

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

I'm currently cracking on with trying to write up a good and throrough Kippax history. As a result of this, questions are raised (but of course!)

Is Colne Chapelry the same place as St Bartholomews?

That's it for now! When I get a few paragraphs down that I'm happy with, I'll start to post bits here (and I really do look forward to the inevitable discussions!)

The chapelry of Colne embraces the townships of Colne, Marsden and Foulridge, Barrowford Booth in Pendle, and Trawden..

From: 'Townships: Colne', A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 6 (1911), pp. 522-536. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... mpid=53171 Date accessed: 26 August 2009

I believe the Parochial chapel was St Bartholomews.

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

Thank you!

I must say, the surfeit of Edward Ks is getting me very tied up with this project!

Look forward to reading it Stephen.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.