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 Post subject: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:03 pm 
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There's a lot of Edwardding going on in 17th and 18th Century Colne. But just how many are there, and who marries who and who fathers whom?

Our first Edward is baptised to John Kippax on 6th April 1606. This is the John Kippax that married Jeneta Hargreaves on 1st June 1602. I believe they lived at Marsden, for that is mentioned in one of his kids' birth. For the record, their children were:
21/2/1603: Richard (buried 29th May 1603)
22/7/1604: Richard (second time lucky.)
6/4/1606: Edward (as mentioned)
25/2/1608: John
25/3/1609: Unnamed Kippax (I think it's due to bad transcribing that this one is without a name, as there is no infant death listed)
12/7/1612: Alexander (probably dies 26/6/1637 as he is listed as 'son of John')
29/1/1614: Henry

The next baptism is 12 years later, so I'm satisfied this is John's family. Most likely his father would have been a Richard, given the naming scheme. There is a Richard Kippax who dies on 26th May 1623. John's wife Jenet seems to be buried (as 'Genit') from Marsden on 26th February 1650, but this could also be son Richard's wife.

Richard (b.1604) seems to have gotten married to a Jenetta Hartley on 27th November 1626. However, a child has already been born to him (of Marsden) on 14th January 1626. This child is not stated to be illigitimate. Not sure what to make of this. Anyway, Richard is listed as having a few more kids at this point.

14/1/1626: John (of Marsden. Named after Grandad?)
1/10/1628: Richard (after self?)
27/3/1631: Edward (after his brother?)
26/6/1633: Alice
21/2/1636: William
22/4/1638: Anna (of Marsden)
17/6/1640: Alexander (of Marsden) (pres. named after recently deceased brother?)
1/1/1643: Henry
1645: "Infant" (Infant child dies 21/9/1645. Child of Richard K. of Marsden)
1645: Ralph (buried 13/12/1645. Son of Richard K. of Marsden)
28/2/1645: Robert (of Marsden)
2/8/1646: Isabella (of Marsden)

Actually, given the rate of kids popped out by his lady wife, it seems perhaps more likely that the 1650 death of Jenet, is that of this man's wife, rather than his mother! Also to note is the burial of a Richard Kippax "of Marsden" on 15/4/1645. It's either this Richard's 17 year old son, or the man himself (which makes Isabella a posthumus (and possibly illegitimate) child).

Of course, Richard did have brothers, too. His eldest one was Edward. Edward had married Ellen Wilson on 12th September 1632. She was the daughter of either a William or a John and was born either 1610 or 1612. Edward and Ellen had children;
1633: Jenet (after his mother)
1635: John (after his father). "of Marsden"
1637: Elizabeth "of Marsden" (died 7/7/1655 "of Lower Marsden"?)
5/3/1639: Here there's a Richard baptised to "Edmund Kippax" of Marsden. A bad transcription? Could be one of our Edward's kids, as there appear to be no Edmunds around at this time!
1639: Infant burial "of Marsden". Death of Infant Richard?
1641: Maria "of Marsden"
1643: William.
1646: Isabella "of Marsden"
1649: Alexander "of Marsden"
1652: Edward "of Marsden"


This Edward probably died 6/7/1660 (of Lower Marsden)

The final sibling of Richard and Edward to have kids seems to have been Henry. No marriage record here, but kids are recorded:
1649: John (of Marsden)
1651: Jenet (of Marsden). Named after recently deceased grandmother?
1654: Unbaptised child (of Marsden)
1658: Richard (Lower Marsden)
1661: William (lower Marsden)
1665: Henry (Lower Marsden)
1667: Edward (Marsden).

To note, if this is John's Henry, then he would have been 53 at the time of this final birth.

So now we have two Edwards.
27/3/1631: Edward (to Richard)
30/6/1667: Edward (to Henry)

Now this proves tricky. Our earlier Edward, as we saw, appeared to have nine, possibly ten children between 1633 and 1652. He would have been between 27 and 46 at the time of these births. Perfectly normal. However, what's to say that the later ones aren't the, ahem, 'work' of his nephew Edward? Edward would have been 21 by the time of the last birth of this period attributed to the elder Edward. I know there's no relevant marriages, but it is feasible...

Regardless, we soon have *another* Edward to contend with, for one is born 28/8/1672 to Alexander of, you guessed it, Marsden. This is either the 1640 child to Richard or the 1649 child to Edward. Probably the 'elder' Edward. Not quite sure what's going on with this Alexander. He had married Elizabeth Riley in 1670 when he is listed as 'of Colne', yet the first born child is mentioned in the 1671 burials "of Beth..." and the comment "Abortion" is listed. Can't get my head over why this would have occurred, or even what the term would mean back then...

Whichever happens, this young Edward dies in 1677 "of Lower Marsden", leaving our two other Edwards, now aged 46 and 10.

In 1681, with the Edwards now aged 50 and 14, there's a birth to one of them (let's presume the former. We're not in 'Broken Britain' territory yet!):
1681: Ellen
1683: Anna (born to Edward...noted as "scriber")
1685: Ellen dies and her abode is listed as 'Clay'. Edward again described as 'scrivener' here.

Now, in 1686, a William K is born to Edward K. This is at Little Marsden, and Edward is not listed as a scriber, so let's presume this is the younger, now aged 19, year old Edward.
1686: William (Little Marsden)
1689: Richard (Little Marsden)
1692: Alexander (Clay..."scriber"). This is our old Edward again. Now aged 61.

1695: And now Edward dies. We should presume the elder Edward, but it does state "little Marsden", so it must be the younger one. A fact confirmed when, in 1696, the seven year old Richard dies and listed as "son of Edward of Little Marsden (deceased)".

1696: Edward, the illigitimate child of Edward Kippax and Grace/Esraela Simpson is born at "Clay in Little Marsden". Note the joint place name...just to confuse things! Assuming that the 65 year old Edward is still going, this must be his!

1701: Edward marries Grace HEWETT. He is at Wanless, and she at Marsden. Anyone any good at Geography and wants to make a suggestion here? Wanless appears to be North of Colne. Very different to Clay or Little Marsden. Perhaps this is a marriage by another Edward entirely?

1719: James born to Edward of Little Marsden. Our elder Edward can't possibly still be at it in his 88th year, can he? Surely not! Let's assume it's his son, born late in life and now aged 23. Feasible enough? Yeah, why not! This James is likely to be Gloria's ancestor.
1720: Robert (born to Edward of Little Marsden)
1722: John (born to Edward of Little Marsden)
1725: Robert (born to Edward of Great Marsden). Note the change from Little Marsden to Great Marsden. Are we assuming the earlier Robert died and this is the 'replacement', or do we want to guess at a whole different family? My thinking is that it's the same family, which makes this Robert my ancestor.
1727: Ellen (born to Edward of Great Marsden)

20/5/1728. Grace, wife of Edward, dies at Little Marsden, leaving Edward as the surviving spouse.
12/4/1729: Edward dies at Little Marsden
4/5/1729: Mary, daughter of Edward K of "Britliff, Burnley" is baptised.

What on Earth do we make of this? Presumably Edward and Grace are of the 1701 marriage couple, but why does Mary end up being born at "Britliff"? Is this Briercliffe?

Answers to any of the above on a postcard, please. I'm slightly less confused than when I started it. Hopefully someone else can sort out any further kinks in all of this!


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:22 pm 
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I will be back Stephen, I will have a good look at it when I have more time. I think a lot of the answers you have come to, have been round the same route as my own---obviously great Kippax minds and all that.
You have certainly been busy putting all that on here.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:00 pm
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Gloria, thanks for the compliments. Typing it up was literally an hour's work, though. I just got tired of looking at my databases, and wanted to try and get it all together. All data is from Colne, btw. I notice that your ancestral James was married at St. Peter's in Burnley, but I don't have Burnley records for a date that late.

I do like the 'scrivener' detail of Edward. Really brings him to life a bit in a way that most 17th century ancestors would not be.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Stephen, did I send you a copy of a spreadsheet of Kippax family? Not everything I have found is on there but what you have got from St Bartholomews is. I have found on it
Henric baptised St Bartholomews 1st Jan 1642 father Richardi --- all their spelling. This must be the Henry you have baptised 1st Jan 1641.
I spent ages a year or two back with bits of paper for each of these Kippaxs, trying to get them in some sort of order, and as you have probably done--I got a headache.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:16 pm 
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Gloria, you didn't send me that, no. But I'd love to have it!

I have Henry down as baptised 1643. Although the record states 1642, it is before the calendar changes to a 1st Jan New Year rather than the old 28th or 29th March New Year. Of course, I may have written it down wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's 1643.

I did indeed get a headache, but I think there's been a breakthrough of sorts, certainly for me, anyway. I was very confused about the two probable Edwards before, but I think I've, at least, got that sorted out now...


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:16 am 
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Stephen, PM me your e-mail address and I will send it to you---she says confidently :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Stephen...my grandfather used to pronounce Briercliffe "Bricliff" with a short i. So, in those days of very spotty schooling, it is possible that it was written down phonetically.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Oh...and I think the word 'abortion' would relate to the proper medical term for a miscarriage...'spontaneous abortion'......
I am impressed by your stick-with-itness on your project....congratulations. Makes for interesting reading even tho' Kippax isn't my kin.
If I were rich I would hire you and Gloria to 'do' my Halsteads....what a team!!


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Suzy, I have a Lawrence Halstead in my tree, he married Maggie Brierley in 1906. Lawrence was the son of Robert Halstead and Ellen (nee Proctor). If you can link to these, you can link into my Kippaxs.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:00 pm
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Suzy,

Thanks for the compliments. And the information! I think Bricliff is probably Briercliffe, yeah. Thanks to yourself (and your Grandad!) for that...

I hadn't really thought enough about the 'abortion' thing to put a slant on it, but you've probably got it right there.

I find it easy to stick with this aspect of my tree because Briercliffe/Haggate is - thanks to Mel etc. - very easy to work one's way around. If every tiny village that my ancestors came from had such care, dedication and quality research spent on them, then family tree-ing would become extremely easy indeed!

As it is, I don't know any other forums quite like this.

No Halsteads on my tree, I'm afraid. I've got a Nutter, a Nuttall and a Skelton I'm descended from, but I've not made any headway on them yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Robert Kippax is my ancestor, and the son of Edward the bastard. James is Robert's brother. We've never known of a mother for Robert and James, but I found this record on a family tree on genesreunited...

"Gives date of baptism as 7 Feb 1724, father Edward Kippax mother Betty British Vital Records index (Latter Day Saints) with marriage date of 6.1.1756"

Anyone got any BVI access to see what's going on here? Could it be a missing piece of information uncovered...?


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:19 am 
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I think I have but I can't check it from here. Will try to remember later :shock:


Isn't the BVI available on the Family Search website?

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:22 am 
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Mel wrote:
Isn't the BVI available on the Family Search website?



Not for the UK it isn't

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:58 pm 
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I once found that and when someone asked me where I got it from I couldn't find it again, but I was sure it was on Familysearch, and I just had the UK sub.
Serves me right for not adding the info when I first found it----you live and learn---always put the source.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Kippax
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:13 pm 
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According to the BVRI discs, the baptism date is correct and took place at Colne. Mothers name is not given. There are 6 baptisms with father named as Edward Kippax on my discs dating from 1719 to 1729. They are

KIPPAX, James Christening Date: 3 May 1719
KIPPAX, Robert Christening Date: 3 Jul 1720
KIPPAX, John Christening Date: 4 Nov 1722
KIPPAX, Robert Christening Date: 7 Feb 1724
KIPPAX, Elen Christening Date: Feb 1726
KIPPAX, Female Christening Date: 1729

The marriage is also at Colne and to a Betty Skelton

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