Welcome to The Briercliffe Society Forum

Hi All, wonder if anyone knows a good free Scotland BMD site, I have hit a brick wall with my research as my GGGG grandparents were born in Kirkcudbright in Scotland and the research website I subscribe to only covers England and Wales.
thanks, Claret

I may be able to look them up on mine (possibly). What were their names & dates of birth?

UTC!!

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

I would greatly appreciate that Portia, their names are Alexander Caven born 1807 and Agnes Coudon. I think they were both born in Dumfries . I have a marriage record from 25/01/1833 as married in Urr, Kirkcudbright. They then moved to merseyside after that. It is both their parents I can,t find.

Claret

Chris
I hadn't realised you were already as far back as that.
As formal registration didn't start until September 1837, you're looking at things like baptism records. I loooked for both Alexander and Agnes but couldn't find anything.
So far I've found a possible match for Agnes's parents on the 1841 Scotland census at Park, Urr, Kircudbrightshire:

John Cowden 60, farmer,
Agnes Cowden 60
John Cowden 35
Christoper Cowden 30
Elisabeth Cowden 25
Jean Cowden 15
Andrew Rafferty 12, male servant (probably a farm worker)

All born Scotland

I guess you'd have to look for something like a burial record or will to see whether there were any clues to a relationship with your Agnes.

I'll see what else I can find.


PS - on the 1851 census John Cowden has a granddaughter, Barbara Caven (b Kirkcudbright 1837), living with him. Any help?

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

This may be your Alexander & Agnes on the 1841 Scotland census - they have a Barbara with them:
Address - Dalbeattie Main St, Urr
John Maxwell 40
Jannet Maxwell 40
Francis Maxwell 15
Elizabeth Maxwell 15
William Maxwell 10
Alexander Caven 40 agricultural lab.
Agness Caven 40
Agness Caven 6
Barbara Caven 4
Marianne Caven 2
John Caven 1 MO

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Maureen, you are a star!!
The only census I can find Alexander and Agnes on is the 1851 census, but the ages differ from your Scotland 1941 census, they are listed as living in West Derby,Mersyside and it`s as follows;-
Alexander Caven age 44
Agnes Caven age 44
Agnes caven age 15
Mary Caven age 11 - should have been on 1841 census but does not appear
John Caven age 9

There is no Barbara, but as you found she was left living with grandparents and there is no Marrianne (of course given the high infant mortality rate in those times she could have died).

The ages of Agnes jnr and john are about right though but the parents on the 1851 census should show as aged 50 if the Scotland 1841 census is correct.

I know that Mary Jane Caven married Irishman John Farrell in West Derby and they had a son named James Alexander Farrell who in turn had a son named Alexander farrell (my great grandfather) so the tradition of handing down names is maintained there.

Thanks again for the work you`ve done, i`m off to try to see if there is any matches in other peoples trees.

Chris.

Chris
I wouldn't attach too much importance to ages on the 1841 census - I always found them to be quite inaccurate.
It's possible that the Marianne on 1841 was actually Mary Ann and that she is the Mary on 1851.
I'm still looking

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

1861, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
John Cowden 58
Christopher Cowden 51
James Cowden 62
Barbra Cowden 22, neice, housekeeper
William Cowden 12
Mary Mcallaster 35

I think this is the same Barbra as Barbra Caven and that she was either going unde the name of Coden by then or the enumerator made an assumption

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Maureen, I`ve sent you a PM on this subject.
Chris.

1881 England Census RG11; Piece: 4146; Folio: 115; Page: 26
38 St Peter St Burnley

Mary J. Farril 40, head, widow, b Dumfries
James A. Farril 14, son, cotton creeler, b Birkenhead
John F. Farril 13, son, cotton Creeler, b Egremont
Janet A. Farril 11, daur, cotton weaver, b Liverpool
Rodger C. Farril 10, son, scholar, b Southport
Margaret M. Farril 8, daur, scholar b Chorley
Wm. Farril 4, son, b Chorley
Alexander Farril 3, son, b Burnley
Joseph Farril, son, 11 mths, b Burnley

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Maureen, you`ve come up trumps again!! "Farril", no wonder I couldn`t find them. Funny how the Innumerator could get it right on the 1851,1861 and 1871 census then get the spelling so wrong on the 1881.

Chris
If I've got my head round this right, The Mary who belonged to Alexander and Agnes was Mary Ann, whereas the Mary you're looking for was Mary Jane.
I've found a couple of other Marys who may fit the bill but have you got Mary Jane's marriage certificate showing her father's name?

_________________
Maureen
If you can't fight, wear a big 'at

Maureen,
Yes that`s right Mary Jane (or Mary J) on every census between 1851 and 1901 and 5 years younger than the Mary daughter of Alexander and Agnes. I don`t have a marriage Cert with parents name but ordering one is the next step. Been on familysearch.org as well but nothing on there either.
Chris.