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 Post subject: Whitakers of Extwistle
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Having found this forum only a few days ago I have already received some great input on my Stanworth/Nicoll line. Thank you all.

I am now turning to look at my other Extwistle line: the Whitakers (John Whitaker married Margaret Stanworth in 1843).

I have looked at the Whittaker pages in the What's in a Name section of this forum but the queries/information given relate to a different line of Whitakers.

Would it be better to add my information/ queries there or to start a strand of posts somewhere else?

Ruth


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
Posts: 462
Hi, it is probably of no help but I have Whitaker's in my tree. I traced them back to Bart.s church in Colne in around 1600.
They migrated over the hill to Briercliffe area and stayed and I have Harrison M. Mary of Southfield in1787.
Their so William m. Hannah, both born late 1700, producing gt. grandfather X3 Joseph in 1811.
Joseph and his wife Betty had 6 children, Eliz. Hannah, Mary William (b1842) ,Sarah and John, born 1850.

Joseph wasn't an only child but I haven't my list handy.

Any help or have I added to the confusion, there are a lot of families called Whitaker in Briercliffe area at that time and they all had the same roots :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 13
Ruth, it appears that we might share the same Whitakers from Extwistle:

John Whitaker = Margaret Stanworth and had Elizabeth Whitaker 08.11.1849
Elizabeth married Joseph Edmondson 26.09.1867 and had 11 children
Joseph and Elizabeth are my great grandparents


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:39 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Many thanks to Hannah and Sylvia for your input.

My descent from John Whitaker and Margaret Stanworth is through their daughter Alice, born 15 March 1866 at Holden Clough, Extwistle. I have the birth certificate so am confident of who her parents were. From the birth date, she was a late child (her mother having been born in 1821). I have census details for the family in 1841, 51 and 61 but not 71 (which had not yet been transcribed when I did most of my research 20 years ago). Elizabeth was an older sister of Alice.

Alice Whitaker married John Thomas Bannister (born 28 April 1860, Nelson Marsden, mother Margaret Bannister, father unnamed) at Burnley Register Office 24 March 1883. On this marriage certificate, Alice's father's occupation is given as stone quarrier, presumably in the same quarry that turns up in Stanworth family information.

Alice and Thomas's daughter, Mary Martha Bannister, was born in Nelson on 15 August 1886. She married Herbert John Hall (whose line goes back via Bury to Nottinghamshire) on 14 April 1906. Their daughter, Annie, my mother, was born on 3 January 1908. Mary Martha died on 2 November 1910 aged 24.

Taking the line back from John Whitaker (born 1816/17 from census information) I have gone only as far his parents: Thomas Whitaker (born 1787 at Extwistle) and his wife Mary (surname not known, born 1790-91). I don't know at present if Thomas can be linked to Hannah's x4 great grandparents William and Hannah. (I was baptised at Colne Parish Church, so it would be nice for me if my Whitakers also had links there - though I am aware that wishful thinking is not a good research tool!)

Ruth


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:29 pm 
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My Joseph Stanworth was born at Holden in 1829, his father James was born there in 1808, so it seems to have been quite a Stanworth stronghold. In the 1841-1871 censuses they were at Clough Croft which is in very close proximity. They all have to be related, it's just a matter of finding how :lol: .

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
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Ruth, is your John, 1816, the third son of Thos. and Mary?
They had eleven children, but I am not sure why I listed them :oops: :oops: I think I was trying to claim his brother James, but it was another Whitaker wild goose chase.

My Gt. X3 grandfather Joseph had a brother called William b. 1842 m. Mary and moved to Townley St , the Briercliffe Rd. one, where he had 8
children, my gt. grandfather also moved down to a house near his uncle and had 8 children.

Still can't imagine how, apart from the children sleeping top to toe, they all fitted in those houses :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
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Hi Hannah

Yes, my John Whitaker (born 14 November 1816 at Monk Hall, Extwistle and baptised at Haggate Baptist Church, information from Briercliffe Society website records) is the son of Thomas and Mary.

However, from the 1841 and 51 censuses, backed up yesterday by referring to the lists of Whitaker births on this wonderful website, I have John as the third child but the second son.

Also, I have only 9 children, living with father Thomas (aged 54) and mother Mary (aged 50), at home at Sweetwell in 1841:

Children listed with Thomas and Mary at Sweetwell in 1841 are:

Ellen (aged 28), Richard (26), John (25), James (also given as 25 in this census but it seems should be 20 based on birth record showing 10 Dec 1820 and census age of 29 in 1851), Elizabeth (19), Samuel (17), Joseph (13), Grace (6) and Joshua (3).

I have 8 Dec 1847 as the death date for Mary, aged 55 (Briercliffe Soc website). I have just ordered death certificates for Mary (which I hope will give me her maiden name, which is as yet unknown to me) and for Thomas, aged 66, buried on 8 Apr 1854 (Briercliffe Soc website).

From the 1851 census, I have father Thomas, (aged 63) plus 7 children and 1 grandchild living in Sweetwell House:

Ellen (aged 37), James (29), Elizabeth (28), Samuel (26), Joseph (22), Grace (15), Joshua (13) - plus William (5, listed as grandson)

I also noticed yesterday, in the Briercliffe Society listings, the death of a John Whitaker, of Sweetwell House, aged 1, born 12 May 1851 - presumably another grandson.

I hope this helps/ is of interest.

Ruth


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
Posts: 462
:) I said there were a lot and it gets very confusing.
I think I got the info. I have from Ancestry, but maybe not :roll:

I have written down 1812 William
1815 Richard @ Herd House
1816 John
1818 Thos.
1820 James
1822 Eliz.
1823 Samual
1826 Grace
1828 Joshua
1831Joseph @ Sweetwell
1835 Grace


At the time I was hunting for a James, but none matched, after a year I found that in fact the badly written census should have read Joseph!!!

I had in the meantime traced many men called James Whitaker, none of whom matched or were even close relatives. The only bonus for me from this was a hunt emigration which came up with another family hunting for my mothers kin in Burnley, I now have 4 2nd cousins in Oz that I would never have found otherwise, so it was worth the work.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
After a further push on my Whitakers, I now feel ready to respond to replies and share my updated research and thoughts!

First, Sylvia, yes, it seems we do indeed share the same Whitaker line. My Alice Whitaker (15/3/1866, birth certificate) was a daughter of John and Margaret (nee Stanworth) Whitaker and therefore a younger sister of your Elizabeth (8/11/1849). John (14/11/16) was a child of Thomas and MaryAs yet, I haven't researched all the siblings, having been concentrating on going back rather than forward.

Hannah, I have now spent more time trying to sort out the children of Thomas and Mary. My list now more closely resembles yours but still with some questions/ comments re Grace, Joseph and Joshua. Some of my problems, like yours, arose from the 1841 census, which I had attempted to transcribe myself 20 years ago. At that time I did not have the very useful Haggate chapel records to consult for clarification!

My best shot is:

William 5 Apr 1812, Purse House, Briercliffe
Ellin 22 Oct 1813, Reedley
Richard 23 Mar 1815, Herd House, Briercliffe
John 14 Nov 1816, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Thomas 3 Nov 1818, Monk Hall, Extwistle
James 10 Dec 1820, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Elisabeth 17 May 1822, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Samuel 28 Nov 1823, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Joshua 25 Mar 1828, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Grace 14 Apr 1836*, Monk Hall, Extwistle
Joseph 17 Oct 1837, Sweetwell House, Extwistle

My information for all but Grace and Joseph (for whom see below) comes from Briercliffe Soc. Haggate Baptist records.

Differences between my revised list and yours are:

Ellin - added, found in Haggate records, and present at Sweetwell House for 1841 and 1851 censuses

Grace - I note that you have two of them. One born in 1826 (as per the Haggate records) and another born in 1835 (which matches census information). I currently favour the view that there has been a transcription error and that one Grace was born on 14 April in 1836 and not 1826. My reasons for this thinking (which could change with new evidence) are: I have not found an infant death for a Grace born in 1826 to precede a later Grace; a Grace of an age to have been born in 1836 is present at Sweetwell House for the 1841 and 1851 censuses; I then tried the 1861 census and found Grace listed at Green Hill as sister, aged 66 (surely wrong!) to Joshua, head, aged 32.

Compared to my original list, I now agree with you that Joshua was born in 1828 (25 March at Monk Hall). Here I blame the 1841 census, which is difficult to read and definitely inaccurate in some respects (for example, I had John and James aged 25, where other evidence shows James should have been 20).
From my reading of the 1841 census, I originally had Joshua and Joseph in each other's position: with Joseph aged 13 and Joshua aged 3. I now have definite evidence that they should be transposed. After an unsuccessful online search in the Lancashire BMD records for a birth for Joshua in 1837-38, I tried for Joseph, and bingo! I now have Joseph's birth certificate:

17 October 1837 at Sweetwell House, Extwistle, Joseph, to Thomas Whitaker (labourer) and Mary Whitaker (formerly Thomas).

This birth certificate had the added advantage of giving me Mary's maiden name, which I did not know before.

A swift online search (IGI) has given me a possible marriage for Mary's parents (which I'll go back to later, unless someone else has already checked this out!).

Richard Tomis, 12 Dec 1790, Burnley, Lancashire, spouse Nelly Sutcliffe.

I'd be interested in any comments. I'm going to post this now and will look later today at whether my line can be linked to Hannah's Whitakers in Colne in around 1600.

Ruth


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
I think it will be easier for people to find if I add this as a separate post here today.

On 4 Feb 2008 elsewhere on this website 'Leaver' asked if anyone else was researching Richard Whitaker and wife Mary (probably nee Leaver). I have a few comments that might be of interest.

Richard Whitaker, listed as head of household, at Sweetwell House in 1851 was a son of Thomas Whitaker and Mary (nee Thomas). I am descended from Richard's brother John, born 1816. (See my previous post for more details of this family group.)

The 1841 census for Sweetwell shows Thomas as head, with Mary his wife, and some of their children, including Richard aged 26, ag lab.

It seems there was more than one household at Sweetwell:

In 1841 there was the household of Thomas and Mary (including son John aged 25), and another household headed by a John Whitaker (gamekeeper, aged 41 (?) - last digit difficult to read). Presumably this second John is related in some way to Thomas but is clearly not his son.

In 1851, Thomas and several of his children are still listed at Sweetwell House (sched. 41) - Mary died in 1847. The second household at Sweetwell House (sched 42) – as written up by Leaver – has Richard Whitaker (Thomas's son) as its head.

Ruth


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Now for my third post today! This time trying to push back from Thomas and Mary Whitaker with reference to Hannah's post (12 June 2012).

Our shared problem with the Briercliffe Whitakers (and others!) in the 19th century is that they all seem to have had big families who grew up to have more big families, with children commonly being given the same forenames that were used by previous generations!

I would have loved to find a Whitaker link back to Colne as this is where I was born (baptised Colne Parish Church) and grew up (until aged 15). However, it seems that this was a bit of wishful thinking.

Hannah's 3 x great grandfather Joseph (born 1811), son of William and Hannah, is not on my direct line.

My 3 x great grandfather is Thomas Whitaker (born 1787) who married Mary Thomas in 1812 (IGI). They had a son Joseph, but not until 1837 - their last child.

I wondered whether my Thomas might have been a brother of Hannah's 4 x great grandfather William, which would have been possible from their approximate birth dates and the date of the marriage of Harrison Whitaker with Mary (1787).

However, a dip in to the IGI today has given me a better match:

Thomas Whitaker, christening 27 Sep 1787, Burnley, Lancs, parents, William Whitaker, Betty Whitaker.

A search for the marriage of William Whitaker and Betty produced:

William Whitaker, marriage 17 Dec 1786, Burnley, Lancashire, spouse Betty Nutter

Pending a bit of corroboration (not my current priority), I won't try to take this line back any further for the time being.

I wonder if anyone else has gone any further back with the line of Thomas Whitaker (born 1787)?

Ruth


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:06 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm
Posts: 462
On my family tree I have got Harrison Whitaker who m. Mary ( of Southfield in 1787)
Their son William b. 1791? m. Hannah b. 1796?
Their son was Joseph b. 1811 who m. Betty Smith

In 1841 Joseph and family lived at Stoney Raikes also at the same address was Richard and his wife Mary who died there in 1845 age 21.
Richard.b 1815 to Thomas and Mary, there also appears to be a brother William b.1815
These appear to be the only records I kept.

They library at Colne with St. Barts records gave my the info. going further back, but there were a lot of Whitakers in Colne at the same period, which makes it difficult to go back without wandering into side branches of the tree :?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
I agree with Hannah about the problems of going back very far into the 18th century especially where a particular family name is very common. The problem is made worse when subsequent generations favour using the same forenames as their own siblings! The Extwistle families I have looked into - Whitakers and Stanworths - are clear examples!

I still favour William Whitaker and Betty (nee Nutter) as the parents of my Thomas Whitaker (born 1787).

Yesterday I posted that William and Betty were married 17 Dec 1786 (this was the date from the IGI). Later, I found and went into Burnley St Peter records (http://www.lan-opc.org.uk) and found that 17 Dec was the date for the first reading of banns. The marriage date was 2 Jan 1791. (As if family history research wasn't complicated enough!)

I am pretty sure that Hannah's Whitakers and mine must be related at some level - but as yet don't (and perhaps never will) know how.

The Richard Whitaker living at Stoney Raikes in 1841 seems not to be Richard, son of Thomas and Mary. The latter is listed in the 1841 at Sweetwell House with Thomas and Mary.

I have Thomas and Mary's son William as being born in 1812, suggesting that the William Hannah found (born 1815) is the brother of the Richard she has found.

There also are at least two Williams of approximately similar age in Extwistle for the 1841 census. I have found a William Whitaker (aged 29 - last digit difficult to read) living at Sweetwell but in a separate household to that of Thomas and Mary. This second household is headed by John Whitaker (aged 41 (?) gamekeeper). He is not Thomas and Mary's son - as their John is in the first household!

Perhaps we'll never succeed in unravelling these complexities - but I suppose it's fun trying!

Ruth


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:07 pm
Posts: 14
Location: York
Hi Ruth

My GT4 Grandfather is John Whitaker / Whittaker (b. 1793, d. 1858).

I have recently discovered that John remarried in 1851 in Worsthorne, and I was made up to find a more detailed record for the wedding - as it listed his Father - William Whitaker, Farmer.

William Whitaker (b~1761) married Betty Nutter (b. 1765).
They had 6 children, Thomas (1787), Jane (1789), Ann(1790), Alice(1792), John(1793), William (1795).

As far as I can work out, this links all the Whitaker families dotted around Extwistle, Sweetwell, Green Hill, Monk Hall etc, with the same ancestor, William.

Thomas Whitaker b. 1787 married Mary Thomas
Marriage: 20 Jan 1812 St Peter, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whitaker - Weaver of Marsden in the Chapelry of Colne
Mary Thomas - (X), Spinster of Briercliffe
Witness: John Berry; James Hargreaves
Banns Read: 5 Jan 1812, 2nd: 12 Jan 1812, 3rd: 19 Jan 1812
Married by Banns by: J. Raws Assist. Curate
Register: Marriages 1812, Page 2, Entry 6
Source: Original Register


and their son John married Margaret Stanworth

Marriage: 30 Jul 1843 St John the Evangelist, Worsthorne, Lancs.
John Whitaker - (X), Of Full age Labourer Bachelor of Extwistle
Margaret Stanworth - (X), Of full age Weaver Spinster of Extwistle
Groom's Father: Thomas Whitaker, Farmer
Bride's Father: Joseph Stanworth, Farmer
Witness: Thomas Whitaker, (X); Richard Whitaker, (X)
Married by According to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England by: L. P. Shaw Curate
Register: Marriages 1843 - 1937, Page 4, Entry 8
Source: Original Register


Please feel free to get in touch.
Martin Whittaker
whittaker_mj@hotmail.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:22 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Hi Martin

I am now back home and able to compare my findings with yours.

I had noted William Whitaker (b. 1787) and Betty Nutter (b. 765) as the probable parents of my ancestor Thomas Whitaker (b. 1787), based on finding their marriage. However, I then moved on to other bits of my tree without trying to confirm this or to try to find any siblings for Thomas. So, thanks for filling me in here.

I already had Thomas Whitaker's marriage to Mary Thomas plus research on all their children (birth dates, some marriages and deaths and some census information). My main interest in their children is their son John (b. 1816), from whom I am descended via their daughter Alice.

I had come across your ancestor John (b. 1793) - whom I had described as 'John the gamekeeper' - while looking at Extwistle census records but didn't know until your post how he fitted in. I could see he wasn't on my direct line but was clearly a relative of some kind.

It was therefore great news for me that you had found the remarriage of your John (b. 1793) with what I think we can now say is a definite link back to William and Betty. I was interested to see that the more detailed marriage information gives this John's occupation as gamekeeper, tying him in to some of my research.

I had looked at and made notes from the 1841 and 1851 censuses 20 years ago. These show that there were two separate households at Sweetwell.

In 1841, one was headed by my Thomas aged 54 (plus wife Mary and 9 children including my John aged 25) and the other by your John (the gamekeeper) aged 47 (plus 5 children and no wife). From what you have told me, it seems clear that my Thomas was your John's nephew.

In 1851, Thomas's household was still at Sweetwell but your John's household had been replaced by that of Richard Whitaker (my Thomas's brother). Meanwhile your John aged 47 (gamekeeper) had moved to Monkhall (next in the census to Sweetwell) and is living only with a William Whitaker (house proprietor and relation) aged 43 (i.e. born c. 1808). Have you any idea how this William fits in? He is not a good match for age for any of the Whitaker families I have looked in to so far.

I hope this is of some interest to you and to others. We definitely seem to be on the same trail!

Ruth


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