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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:51 pm 
Sage of Simonstone
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StephenBray wrote:
A quick check over something that's currently concerning me...

Haggate is a Baptist chapel, right. This means that people don't get baptised until they can consent. Not quite sure what age that is, but it's not the year of birth, is it?

But we have a baptismal register (or is it a births register?) for Haggate. I've taken the details of the various entries from this site, and added a few from the actual books at Burnley, but can't remember whether they stated 'births' or 'baptisms'. My query then is this; are they births that are listed, or are they baptisms, and if they are the latter, then does this not confuse us with regards to the actual birth dates of the people involved...?


Stephen
Going back to this (quite old) post of yours. Many Baptist Chapels have a 'cradle roll' where they record the biths of children of congegation members. Just another of my useless bits of information that may one day become useful??

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:08 pm 

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They are just births !

Some Baptist chapels would have baptismal registers, but they would be of adults, or at least adolescents, consenting to be baptised.

Rex


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:57 pm
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Hi,

I have just seen a report of the following on BBC North West News:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/ne ... ng_hunted/

Mo


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:32 pm 
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I posted the same article in the Briercliffe News topic earlier.

What is the world coming to!?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:30 pm 

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Sorry Mel, I never saw that you had posted about it - must have missed it.

Mo


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:03 am 
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It isn't a problem.

Can you believe that people can be so disrespectful! They must be the lowest of the low!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:15 am 
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Burnley Express

Wednesday 24 September 1902

Interesting Ceremony At Haggate

Unveiling of Tablet

On Saturday an interesting ceremony took place at the Haggate Baptist Chapel, when a tablet erected to the memory of past elders was unveiled. After tea in the schoolroom, the ceremony took place in the chapel, where the tablet had been erected. Mr. Lawrence Atkinson, of Burnley, took the chair, and in his opening remarks he spoke of the commencement of the Haggate Baptists 140 years ago at Burwains, a place about a mile from Haggate. Since the commencement no ceremony of this kind had ever taken place. It was often said that a man's good deeds are buried with his bones, and that the bad deeds live on, but that tablet was a testimony to the fact that the good deeds were not buried with the man's bones, but that they lived on. These men had held responsible positions as elders of that church. They occupied their positions with diligence, patience, and perseverance. Nearly all of them took very active parts in carrying on the work as teachers in the school, superintendents, and as preachers. The hours they must have spent for this church were more than could be imagined. Some of them must have spent no fewer than ten thousand hours in preparation for feeding the flock. They had a reward here a well as a reward hereafter. Often the elders were spoken slightingly of and blamed for their actions. We should exercise some forbearance and not all look at the thing in the same way. We should try not to blame those who do not look at things in the same light as we.

Mr. W. Preston was then called upon to unveil the tablet in the place of Mr. W. Stanworth, who, being ill, was unable to be present. Mr. Preston expressed his regret at the absence of Mr. Stanworth, and then unveiled the tablet. It is of white marble, with a backkground of black marble, and on it is the following inscription:-

Sacred to the memory of the departed Elders of this Church.
William Smith, from 1767 to about 1809.
Abraham Nowell from 1790 to 1824
John Berry from 1824 to 1849
John Hudson from 1830 to 1871
Peter Holgate from 1838 to 1867
James Berry from 1869 to 1874
John Holgate from 1869 to 1886
Thomas Proctor from 1867 to 1892

Mr. Preston then said it was a nice piece of work from an artistic point of view, but that was not its value to them. The could soon scan over the names and the years they had been elders, but they could not estimate the labour part put into those years by those brethren. They could not realise their anxiety, their labour of love, and sometimes their distress of mind for the welfare of that church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the weary days and nights he had spent, the trials and hardships he had borne, but finished up with the expression, "The care of all the churches," as though it was his greatest trial. In their time, and they could go back to the third name of the tablet, and turn their lives over in their minds, they had sat under them and listened to their ministrations and profited by their discourses and been led by them. One remembers the time when they had not such a place as this, not such a Sunday school, not such a company. These have not come suddenly, but gradually. Their brethren had laboured year in and year out, and now they had entered into their labours. The elders had been faithful, trying to cheer the distressed, to strengthen the weak, and bring back the wandering one.

J. Greenwood, of Brierfield, said that the men who had so far spoken from a personal knowledge of those men whose names are perpetuated on the tablet. He only knew Thos. Proctor, but by conversing with others he had learned much of the lives and work of those other persons mentioned. It had often occurred to him that there must have been some labourers who have laid a strong and durable foundations, and as a consequence they have laid, so far as we can see, there has been built a strong and prosperous church. He also spoke of the responsibility of the present church because of its present position. They have taken up the standard, and it is for them to carry it forward into the thick of the fight against sin, superstition, and error. These men laboured and undertook tasks the present age failed to do. With them it would be a life-long struggle with disadvantage. If they are to overcome they must come to the same source, search the Scriptures as the elders did, so that the things of which the church was built may be perpetuated. The Bible was being to-day somewhat laid aside. Other books, no doubt good books, were made a substitute for the Bible.

Robert Shoesmith was then called to address the meeting. He just wanted to add his testimony to those who had gone before. Five of the men on the tablet he had known. He well remembered John Hudson sitting in the pulpit with an ear trumpet. He remembered Peter Holgate preaching in the present chapel, grey and aged in the service of Jesus Christ. Then he also remembered James Berry, John Holgate, and Thos. Proctor. These men laboured, giving their time, talents, and money to the church, and we are to follow their example. The office of the elder was one which can be made much lighter than it is if each would strive to help one another. Great changes had taken place, changes amongst the elders, deacons, and members. Many who were there had gone.

Anthems were rendered by the choir, under the leadership of Mr. J. Foster, songs by Misses Proctor and Banks, and recitations by Misses Burrows, Duerden, Halstead, and Hargreaves.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:46 am 
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Do we know the names on the graves which had the flags stolen? I have looked through the photos on the site but cannot identify them. They don't appear to be on the roadside so it beggars belief how they managed to move them.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:56 am 
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Do you know which stones/vaults were targetted? I have pictures of most of the stones in Haggate

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:44 am 
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I just presumed they were the graves on the link which mosiefish put on.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:21 pm 
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I think the picture is just a picture of the graveyard? The article mentions vaults, I asumed they would be the great big ones that would have stood in front of the Chapel

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:09 pm 
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If it was those then they would have had to get through the gates with a lorry and hiab to move them.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Burnley Express

Saturday 19 January 1895

The Baptist Chapel, Haggate
From The "History of Briercliffe and Extwistle."
[By Tattersall Wilkinson]

Where heaves the turf in many a mouldering heap,
Each in his narrow cell for ever laid,
The rude forefathers of the hamlet sleep.

For them no more the blazing hearth shall burn,
Or busy housewife ply her evening care;
No children run to lisp their sire's return,
Or climb his knees the envied kiss to share.

Let not ambition mock their useful toil,
Their homely joys, and destiny obscure;
Nor grandeur hear with a disdainful smile,
The short and simple annals of the poor.

The founder of this primitive church was William Smith, shalloon weaver, of the "Hill," in the township of Briercliffe. He was a man possessed of some property, and was allied to the old yeoman family of the Smiths, of Pig-hole, whose ancestors are known in the history of the township during many centuries. William Smith was a manufacturer on a small scale, letting out his work among his neighbours, in the days when the sound of the shuttle was heard in every cottage and farm-house. In those days the cotton manufacture was unknown, shalloons, bombazines, huckabacks were composed of various designs and manufactured entirely of wool. The principal market for these goods was held at Halifax, across the Pennine range, in the West Riding of Yorkshire. The goods were generally carried over Widdup Head by pack horses, the only possible method of communication across these desolate wilds. 'Tis said that when Halifax market was glutted with goods William Smith proceeded to Glasgow for the purpose of opening up a new market for his trade. During his visits to Scotland he frequently met and conversed with members of the Baptist faith , which ultimately resulted in his conversation. On returning he began to open out his theological views among his workmen and neighbours, among whom he made a few converts. Some time about the year 1763 about a half a score began to worship in a small room over a cart shed at Burwains. This humble temple still exists. The old cart shed with the room above remains intact as it was in the days of yore. As time wore on this humble community prospered so well that the old chamber became too small, upon which the elders began to look out for more commodious premises. A plot of land was procured at Haggate more convenient and central to the rising congregation. The original title deeds are still in existence, though superseded by more modern documents. The following names are found in the indenture of the original trust deed -
Indenture between William Smith, the elder, of the Hill, in Briercliffe, yeoman, and William Smith, the younger, shalloon weaver, of the first part. The names of the original trustees are as follows:- William Smith, the younger, of Hill, shalloon weaver; Amoros Walton, piecemaker, Whately Lane, of the second part. James Hoyle, of Hill, shalloon weaver; John Hargreaves, of Colne, weaver; John Heap, Marsden, farmer; John Burrows, Marsden, weaver; Hartley Emmett, Hackgate, weaver; John Stuttard, Southfield, weaver; Jonathan Hey, Briercliffe, cordwainer, of the third part. The following extracts are from the title deeds:- "Ightenhill, 27th October, 1768, William Smith, the younger, shalloon weaver, &c......All that newly erected chapel and yard, as it is walled about, and three yards of land on the outside thereof, &c.......for Church Protestant dissenters called Baptists." A number of the flock that joined these primitive founders of the Baptists originally belonged to the Inghamites, who, believing that baptismal immersion was the only true scriptural baptism, they left their old faith and joined the new sect, thus laying the foundation of the large and thriving community of Baptists which for nearly a century and a half has exercised such a powerful influence on the civilisation of the district. The townships of Briercliffe and Extwistle stand unique in the annals of crime, and may compare favourably with any portion of Her Majesty's dominions. After making searching inquiries I may be justified in stating that during the last half century of their history, scarcely a single case of felony committed by a native has taken place in the entire district.
An application for license to preach in the chapel at Haggate was made at the General Quarter Sessions of the Peace, held at Preston on Thursday, the 30th day of April, 1767, of which the following is a copy:-
"This is to certify that at the General Quarter Sessions of the peace held by adjournment, on and for the County Palatine of Lancaster on Thursday, the 30th day of April, in the seventh year of King George the Third's reign, the newly erected Baptist Chapel at a place called Haggate, in the parish of Burnley, in the said county, was recorded as a meeting-house for protestants dissenting from the Church of England to exercise their religious worship. As witness my hand - Bradley, Deputy Clerk of the Peace in and for the said County."
The following are the names of the first five elders or ministers of the chapel together with their dates of office. William Smith, 1768, who died before 19th October, 1809; Abraham Nowell, 1790, 1828; John Berry, 1824, 1849; John Hudson, 1830, 1871; and Peter Holgate, 1838, 1867.
The school in connection with the chapel was founded in the year 1821. The first birth recorded is August, 1762, the second is of the same date, and the third is December 17th, 1768. After this the entries are numerous.
The first burial is thus recorded:- "Sallie Berry, of the parish of Colne in the County of Lancaster, aged seventeen months, was buried in the Protestant burial ground at Haggate on the 23rd day of February, 1786. Registered the 25th day of May, 1786, by me, Protestant dissenting minister, Wm. Smith.
Abraham Nowell, of Holt Hill, whose ministry commenced in 1790, was a fine old patriarch of the humble house of prayer at Haggate. In reference to his early life he says:-"My birth and parentage were of the most humble description. The place of my nativity was a small room over a stable at Southfield in Great Marsden on the 9th day of September, 1760. Such was the burden of the children of my parents that my temporal benefactor said (in familiar style) they had more sheep than the pasture would keep. In his kindness, with the consent of his partner in life, I was translated out of the bosom of my own family into that of my mother's brother, who resided at Holt Hill in Briercliffe when I was little more than 12 months old. I have always thought that the best and choicest of earthly situations have nothing to boast of on the whole. Something of this was verified in my case. I had a good home, but my work was hard, my prevailing inclination was for the acquisition of knowledge, so that the slender means I possessed in money and time were laid out in that way. An intense application to books, together with my laborious work day by day prived too much for my weakly constitution, so that at one time it seemed to be the opinion of the doctors that I was far advanced in consumption. Here it is proper that I should again bring to view the merciful and kind distributions of Divine Providence towards me in affording me means that were conductive to my restoration to health, and which had, indeed, a salutary effect, though at the time of writing (1828)this I am far from being free from the consequences of over much exertion of body and mind."
This truly good and faithful shepherd sleeps in the "God's Acre" of the church he loved so well, May he rest in peace.
Calm on the bosom of thy God,
Fair spirit! rest thee now!
Ev'n wile with us thy footsteps trod,
His seal was on the brow.

Dust to its narrow house beneath,
Sent to its place on high!
They that have seen thy boon in death,
No more may fear to die.
In the year 1824 a number of the worshippers at Haggate seceded from the mother church and commenced to worship at Marsden Height; a similar secession also took place in 1838, when the seceders removed to Hill Lane, where they still exist.
Mr. A. Brodie, a venerable old man, now 75 years of age, was for a long time an elder at Haggate, where he was held in great veneration and respect. He emigrated several years ago to British Columbia as a missionary among the Chinese settlers, and there he still resides.
(To be continued.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:46 pm
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I used Wilkinson's newspaper articles in my 2007 booklet on the church's origins. I found no firm evidence that SMITH ever went to Scotland. He was an Inghamite member around 1760, and two of Ingham's helpers did go to Scotland and meet Glasites at this time. Glasites were the non-Baptist equivalent of Scotch Baptists.

It's all in the booklet, advertised on site and still available, at the same price !!!

Rex


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:06 am 
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Thieves have struck again!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/ne ... ey_church/

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