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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:12 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Hi Gloria, unfortunately I'm not local. I was brought up in Otley, Yorkshire, moved to Hertfordshire and now I'm in Cambridgeshire.

To be honest, I'm not sure if I had great grandma's birth cert. I must get it if not. My son is staying and is in the spare room so I haven't rummaged under the bed yet. I have a lot of things in boxes under there.

I have her marriage cert here:

October 29th 1892.

Emily Sutcliffe aged 27. Married Peter Beresford at St. Thomas Church, Barrowford.

His father was a farmer. Her father - just a line. Also, on one of the census forms which I think was the 1891 one, I'll fine it shortly, her mother was a Duerden and the rest of the children were Duerden apart from Emily who was born 'in the middle' of all the others, who is Sutcliffe.

Sue


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Hi again Gloria,

What do you think? I have my great grandma's marriage cert here and have found her birth as Emily Duerden in 1873 in Burnley. I will send for the cert but I don't understand why on the marriage cert, she is Emily Sutcliffe and father's name and surname is blank.


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:55 am 
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Location: Staffordshire
Todays plan is food shop and then catch up on this, and other posts. Have you ordered the cert Daisy Sue? If not, hold off. I may have info...not sure but wouldn't want you to spend money you don't need to.

Picture the scene - covered terrace looking out on acres of oak woodland in the sunshine and me sitting at the table with baguette, cheese, wine....and my trusty laptop :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:29 am 
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Location: Near Chorley
Blank, blank, blank, blank and many other blanks :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Hi Mel. I'm picturing the scene and am jealous, lots. Cool and a bit damp here. :?

I haven't ordered the birth cert for Sarah yet because to be honest, I'm not sure which is her. So many Sutcliffes and so many Sarah's!!

Sue


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Sorry....... I'm sure now that she was Sarah Sutcliffe born 1845. Baptised 31st August 1845. Father Joseph and mother Jane (Roberts)

Sue


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:35 pm 
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OK, I think I know why Emily was a Sutcliffe and not a Duerden. Sarah Sutcliffe did not marry John Duerden until 19 Jun 1874 (For some reason, I do not have the venue in my file). John died in 1882 and Sarah went on to marry James Duerden in 19 Aug 1893, again no venue?!

Emily's sister, Mary Jane also married as a Sutcliffe -

Marriage: 20 Aug 1892 St Thomas, Barrowford, Lancs.
Thomas Cowling - 25 Carter Bachelor of Barrowford
Mary Jane Sutcliffe - 23 Winder Spinster of Barrowford
Groom's Father: John Cowling, Labourer
Witness: Peter Beresford; Emily Sutcliffe
Married by Banns by: A F S Studdy Vicar
Register: Marriages 1844 - 1900, Page 123, Entry 245
Source: LDS Film 1471022

1851 census
HO107/2254 folio731 pg 8
29 Lower Fradshaw, Barrowford
Barnard Sutcliffe/Head/Widow/68/Outdoor Labourer/Pasture
Joseph Sutcliffe/Son/ Marr/ 29/ Stone Mason/Blacko
Jane Sutcliffe/Wife/Marr/28/ Handling Weaver/Gouleshaw (might be Foulshaw)
Sarah Sutcliffe/dau/ /5/Scholar/Pasture

1861
RG9/3081 folio 116 page 3
Royal Oak, Barrowford
Joseph Sutcliffe Head Mar 40 Stone Mason Barrowford, Lancashire
Jane Sutcliffe Wife M 39 Masons Wife Barley, Lancashire
Sarah Sutcliffe Dau Un 14 Power Loom Weaver Barrowford, Lancashire
William Sutcliffe Son 9 Scholar Barrowford, Lancashire
Bernard Sutcliffe Son 5 Scholar Barrowford, Lancashire
Mark Sutcliffe Son 1 Barrowford, Lancashire


1871
RG10/4158 folio 77 pg 2
Pasture Cottage, Barrowford
John Duerden Head M 27 cotton weaver b.Nelson
Sarah Wife 25 cotton weaver b.Pasture
Albert Son 2 b.Pasture

1881 Dwelling:Hill Top
Census Place:Barrowford Booth, Lancashire, England
Source:FHL Film 1341998 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 4165 Folio 77 Page 26
MarrAgeSexBirthplace
John DUERDENM37 MNelson, Lancashire, England Rel:Head Occ:Cotton Weaver
Sarah DUERDENM36 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Wife Occ:Cotton Weaver
Mary J. DUERDEN 9 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Dau Occ:Scholar
Emily DUERDEN 7 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Daur Occ:Scholar
Suclliffe DUERDEN 4 MBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Son Occ:Scholar
Thomas DUERDEN 2 MBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Son

1891
RG12/3376 folio 38 pg 3
16 Essex St, Nelson
Sarah Duerden, Head, W, 45, b.Nelson
James, brother, 34, Cotton weaver, b.Nelson
Emily, dau. 17, Cotton winder, b.Barrowford
Sutcliffe, son, 14, Cotton winder, b.Barrowford
Thomas, son, 12, b.Barrowford

1901
RG13/3883 folio 125 pg 38
3 Mansfield Street, Brierfield
James Duerden, Head, M, 42, Labourer cotton mill, b.Nelson
Sarah Duerden, Wife, M, 50, Cotton weaver, b.Barrowford

1901
RG13/3891 folio 10 pg 4
Cottages adjoining the R.C. Mission Room Fence
Peter Beresford Head M 36 General labourer b.Countersett
Emily Wife 28 b.Barrowford
Barbary Dau 8 b.Barrowford
William Son 6 b.Laund
Francis Son 4 b.Laund
Mary Dau 2 b.Laund
Dorothy Dau 8mo b.Laund

What is now really frustrating, for me more than you(!), I don't have access to all my certificates etc until I get home. They got left behind on the dining table because he who packs the car thought the folder was work related and not required! Annoyed at myself for not noticing the file still sitting there!

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Ah I see. I had put in my tree that she married two Duerdens and then deleted as I thought I had got it wrong. I will check but I'm sure Emily was born in between her other children. I don't think the two Duerden's she married were brothers were they. Sorry, I know you're away and supposed to be enjoying your break. Thank you so much for your help. I will have another look at her records. Do we have a connection then? I do have the marriage cert for Emily and Peter Beresford. Will send on to you later if you haven't.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:37 pm 
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Location: Staffordshire
We definitely have a connection. Sarah was the niece of my Mary.

Sarah had Albert and Mary Jane before she had Emily. I'm not sure what became of Albert but the children after Emily would all be post marriage and legitimately Duerdens. It's probable that John was her dad but maybe they had an awkward vicar marrying them who would not recognise the father as she was born out of wedlock. All assumptions on my part of course. I have accessed Emilys marriage certificate via Ancestry.

I'm not sure if they were brothers or not. Off the top of my head, they are not. I feel sure there were different Dads on the marriage certificates which I must have seen to make that assumption!

As for enjoying my break - I am. This is what I enjoy and don't get as much time as I would like to pursue it. When we are here in France, I 'tree'.

It's such a long time since I looked at this line. I think I was in touch with someone else who will have a closer connection to you than I do...again, such a long time ago!

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
I wonder if it was Patsy Carter you were in touch with. She seems to have everyone in her tree who is in mine. Including me! I haven't worked out yet how she and I are connected. There is also a girl called Gale who is connected. My eldest son went to school with her and we lived in the same block of flats in 1981 and we never knew we were connected until a year or so ago. It amazed us. We share the same 4 x gt grandparents, Bernard Sutcliffe and Sarah Dyson.

I'm losing the will to live. So many Sarah Sutcliffe's and James Duerden's. I had it worked out in my head a little while ago but it's gone again. Must be my age. :)

Albert died when he was 18. I will have a look at Mary Jane. I hadn't taken much notice of the brothers and sisters. My Gran was called Mary Jane. I wonder if it was maybe after that Mary Jane born c1870.

The Duerden men Sarah married weren't brothers as we both said. They definitely had different parents.

I went to France last year with my cousin. My first time abroad. I loved it. We stayed in Nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:44 pm 
Spider Lady
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Location: Staffordshire
I have been in touch with Patsy, many years ago. I dropped the contact for reasons I won't go into on a public forum. Unless she has found the birth/marriage of the John who is at the top of her tree, there is no connection.

I believe I have had contact with Gale too...she sounds familiar. There is also a Wendy that stems into your tree.

We are in SW France, in the Lot which is close to the Dordogne

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Hmmm, I don't have contact with her now either. You probably did have contact with Gale, she was researching her tree but stopped a while ago but now she's interested again since we discovered our connection. I've seen a lady called Wendy - something to do with NZ?

I would love to go to France again but having just retired, I don't think I will be able to go anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:27 am 
Spider Lady
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Location: Staffordshire
I have done a little digging into Mary Jane. It turns out, Thomas Cowling paid for Sutcliffe Duerdens grave (that ref at the very bottom). The burial references are from Lancashire Online Parish Clerk (lan-opc)

Burial: 8 Oct 1934 Wheatley Lane Inghamite, Fence In Pendle, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Cowling - Widow of Thomas Cowling
Age: 63 years
Abode: 15 Market Square, Nelson
Grave: 93
Section: 6
Buried by: H. Whittaker
Register: Burials Section 5-7 1933 - 1983, Page 55
Source: Original Parish Register

1935 COWLING Mary Jane of 15 Market-square Nelson Lancashire widow died 4 October 1934 Administration London 23 February to Lily Cowling spinster. Effects £201 8s. 6d
1881 Dwelling:Hill Top
Census Place:Barrowford Booth, Lancashire, England
Source:FHL Film 1341998 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 4165 Folio 77 Page 26
MarrAgeSexBirthplace
John DUERDENM37 MNelson, Lancashire, England Rel:Head Occ:Cotton Weaver
Sarah DUERDENM36 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Wife Occ:Cotton Weaver
Mary J. DUERDEN 9 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Dau Occ:Scholar
Emily DUERDEN 7 FBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Daur Occ:Scholar
Suclliffe DUERDEN 4 MBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Son Occ:Scholar
Thomas DUERDEN 2 MBarrowford, Lancashire, England Rel:Son

1891
RG12/3383 folio 38 pg 5
Lower Harpers, Old Laund Booth
Mary Sutcliffe, Head, S, 21, Cotton winder, b.Barrowford

1901
RG13/3880 folio 134 pg 32
14 Beech Street, Nelson
Thomas Cowling, Head, M, 33, Corporation labourer, b. Lincs Reasty
Mary J Wife M 31 Cotton winder b.Barrowford
Sarah A Dau 7 b.Nelson
Mary A Sister 24 Cotton winder b.Lincs Reasty

1911
RG14PN24891 RG78PN1424 RD472 SD4 ED11 SN332
120 Chapel St Nelson
Thomas Cowling Head Married Male 42 1869 Lincolnshire Livesby Farm Hand - Labourer
Mary Jane Cowling Wife Married Female 40 1871 Lancs Barrowford
Sarah Anne Cowling Daughter Single Female 17 1894 Lancs Nelson Lozenze Picker And Sorter
Lilly Cowling Daughter - Female 3 1908 Lancs Nelson
Mary Kathleen Sower Boarder Single Female 30 1881 Irland Waterfoot Resident Lozenze Picker And Sorter

Burial: 15 Jan 1895 Wheatley Lane Inghamite, Fence In Pendle, Lancashire, England
Sutcliffe Duerden - Son of John Duerden & Sarah
Age: 19 years
Abode: Hodge House, Nelson
Grave: 93
Notes: Paid 5/3. This Grave belongs to Thomas Cowling, see page 37,255
Section: 6
Register: Burials Section 5-7 1889 - 1924, Page 13
Source: Original Parish Register

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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Thank you again Mel. I haven't been around today but I will be back on to it tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Sutcliffe
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:47 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 pm
Posts: 22
Hello again. Hope you're well. I've been looking up Mary Jane and she's another one who doesn't have a father's name on her marriage banns. Sorry if you had already told me this Mel. :?


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