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If Joshua's cert doesn't throw up the father, you could try Sarahs. Just seems a bit odd to have two children out of wedlock.
Another thought, 1851 Sarah is grandchild to the Hartleys, I wonder if a son of theirs could be the father of both, and he died before Nanny married Abraham.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Worth a shot. I opted for the Joshua certificate as the name isn't as common as Sarah. The only children I have found for the Hartley's have been the 3 on the census though there is a big gap between the youngest and the middle girl.
I need a trip north I think to dig through a few more records. I thought I had some St Peter/Sutcliffe records here from a previous trip but I can't put my hands on them. Oh to be more organised!

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

Read through all this again and found the marriage you have mentioned between Alice Sutcliffe and John Hartley, that explains them calling them grandchildren.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

It doesn't no, but then there are those who would accept it in the blink of an eye.
In cases like that I attach the individual but with a note in capitals stating that there is a possible discrepancy.

This is a link to the marriage of Nanny Sutcliffe and Abraham Atkinson
http://www.briercliffesociety.co.uk/talkback/viewtopic.php?t=96

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Mel

Searching for lost relatives? Win the Lottery!

My KIPPAX connection is on my Grandmothers side. My GG Grandmother married firstly a William Dean and secondly a James Kippax.
James was from Barrowford Lancs born Nov 1850 and died 1909 in Burnley. In 1881 he lived in Ashfield Grove, Reedly Hallows, Brierfield. His father is recorded as John Kippax and Mother Elizabeth.

James married Susannah DEAN (nee Horne) in 1884 at Burnley.
The family resided at 39 James St Burnley in 1901 with children :: John, Robert, Elizabeth Annie and James.

Glenys

Gloria,,, my guess is that you have already seen the entry in FamilySearch (LDS) for
James kippax Birth Abt 1735 Briercliffe Lancashire England
marriage 28 June 1760 to Susan Nutter
Submitted by the LDS Church

that's it but there are some useful file numbers:

Film Number 962005
Page Number 266
Ref: SG 5585

Just in case you haven't got them

Glenys

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The hawk flys round and round, the sky is so blue. I think I can hear the old bell ringing like I rang it to call them home ... Oh I was young then, and I walked in my body like a Queen

Glenys, thanks for that, but yes I have seen it. I think the 1735 is a guess as where ever I look I cannot find it. Think someone has just gone from the date of marriage. The marriage is right. There is one birth however, 1719, but why he would leave it to 1760 to get married??????? don't know.
At the moment I am looking into the Tabernacle at Hillgate, Stockport where a couple of his children were registered to see if he had been added to that. ------Don't you just love family history.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Gloria,, may be nothing but thought you should know:

In 2002 I was briefly corresponding on GENFORUM with a Woman by the name of Alison Murray concerning KIPPAXes from Burnley/Briercliffe.

We couldn't make any connections but from her last post to me she wrote the following:: The James i mentioned was living at Sandbeck Haggate in 1841 and was a half brother of my GG Grandfather Joshua Kippax.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/kippax/messages

Glenys

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The hawk flys round and round, the sky is so blue. I think I can hear the old bell ringing like I rang it to call them home ... Oh I was young then, and I walked in my body like a Queen

Glenys, yes I have been in touch with Alison, small world.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Small World indeed!

Glenys

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The hawk flys round and round, the sky is so blue. I think I can hear the old bell ringing like I rang it to call them home ... Oh I was young then, and I walked in my body like a Queen

I have James Kippax born 1st Feb 1817, he is my 3x gt grandfather

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Gloria, I came across these when I was trying to find a Leaver. Don't know whether you have them on your tree?

James Kippax m Betty Leaver 1860 (8e 247)
Looking at the 1851 and 1861 censuses this looks to be your James Kippax who was born 1/2/1817.

Banister Kippax born 1864 (8e 178)

1851 census:Piece: 2251; Folio: 117; Page: 41
Daniel Kippax 6
James Kippax 30
Mary Kippax 30
Mary Ann Kippax 3
Sarah Ellen Kippax 9


1861 census: Piece: 3073; Folio: 89; Page: 28
Betty Kippax 30
Carriel Kippax 16 (I assume this is Daniel)
James Kippax 43
Joshua Kippax 9
Mary A Kippax 15
William Kippax 6
Jimmy Leaver 1
John Leaver 9
Willy Leaver 5

1871 census Folio: 18; Page: 30
Barnnster Kippax 5 (I assume this is Banister)
Betty Kippax 40
James Kippax 53
Joshua Kippax 19
William Kippax 16
Jimmy Leaver 12
John Leaver 19
Willy Leaver 15

Betty is James' second wife and the little Leavers are her children by I presume her first husband----haven't gone down that route. Betty is in the same grave as James, his first wife and her (1st wifes) mother, amongst others!!!

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.

Should have known you wouldn't have missed it.

Must be a bit crowded in there. Most men would turn in their graves at the thought of being confined with two wives and a mother-in-law.

His first mother-in-law was a Parker, and both she and her grand-daughter died at the same time due to inhalation of fumes. They are both in the grave. There is the Burnley Express report on the deaths in the Papers Past section.---wrong it is under the Whats in a Name---Parker, I will put it in Papers Past as well.

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Gloria

I'd be dangerous with a brain.