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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:59 pm 
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1767 First chapel built off Halifax Road. Now demolished - some foundations visible
1866 New chapel built on Nelson Road

"Foundations visibible". Does anyone have a more accurate of idea of whereabouts this older chapel was? Being as my Haggate ancestry fled the place in the late 1830s, this is more the 'ancestral' chapel than the newer, grander - and equally lost - Nelson Road chapel...

Stephen


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:04 pm 
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The original Chapel was in the area you tried but failed to access. Beyond the fence and down the bank a little.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:56 pm 
Natural Geek

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I guess I should have tried harder! A quick scan of Googlemaps shows that area is much, much bigger than I expected it to be! Perhaps if I'd have known its size, I'd have explored a little further.

Am itching to go back now. I'm assuming that the oldest graves would be nearest to the elder chapel...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:30 am 
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The oldest graves are all in that section. I'd suggest your return trip is during the winter months - the grass is not such a problem then.
There are not very many gravestones left in that section really. Over the years I have found the odd stone that has not been recorded on the MI's. I've no idea why they were missed.

There is a gate off Halifax Road but I believe this is now padlocked.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:24 am 
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We climbed the fence out of the "new" graveyard. It was winter and snow about so you couldn't really see when you were going to walk into a hole, and there are lots. I spent an hour saying "sorry" every time I trod on a grave.
There are also some Kippax graves in Hill Lane Grave Yard.
Where abouts are you from Stephen?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:36 am 
Natural Geek

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Gloria - I've seen the Hill Lane transcripts. Looks quite interesting!

My problem is that, given that 'my' Sarah Kippax left the place around 1841, it's very hard to find relevant gravestones. I've found one for Henry, her brother, but apart from that, everything is cousins or nephews/neices.

I'm a Liverpool boy, but been living in Manchester these last few years. It's not a hard journey to get to Haggate, but it's still a little tricky to schedule it in, especially when one's other half doesn't have the same genealogical yearning as oneself!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:04 am 
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Ha ha I think nearly everyone on here has another half like that. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:19 am 
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I'd go with that though I think your hubby is better than most Gloria.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Mine has a results-only interest. Really curious to know about his family (about whom I know far more than him) but with no interest in doing any of the work.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Are there any photos of there of the earlier chapel? I intend to go and visit it myself in the next couple of weeks - and generally have more of a tour of the area - but given how much the area of the Halifax Road chapel has apparently grown over in recent years, I was wondering whether any older photos of the site exist...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:13 pm 
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One of my Burnley history books has a photo. I will scan it for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:20 pm 
Natural Geek

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I would appreciate that very much! My efforts to find it yesterday were cruelly thwarted by what appeared to be some two hundred Triffids in attendance!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:55 pm 
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I visited Haggate for the 2nd time yesterday. I had a spare afternoon and fancied filling it with the possibility of a slightly better coordinated journey and, hopefully, finding the Church that my ancestors had used. I was also somewhat fired up with the thought of giving something 'back' to this wonderful Forum by hopefully getting some photos of graves that might have been missed due to difficulty in the past. However, I wasn't quite prepared for the wilderness that consists of Halifax Road Chapel!

First of all I had decided to drive past the site and explore some of the Eastern area of Haggate - mainly 'cos I wanted to see Lane Bottom, where Kippaxes past have dwelt. No idea really where to begin with trying to find ancestral pads in Lane Bottom, but I was most surprised to find Hill Lane Chapel which I had - 'til yesterday - assumed was one and the same as the 'old' Halifax Road Chapel!

An awful lot of Nuttalls in Hill Lane. I have an interest in this line as my GG Grandmother Sarah K who left Briercliffe for Holmfirth was born of Kippax and Nuttall. Never been able to place her mother, Ann Nuttall, into any Nuttall tree though, although I will keep trying! At first glance, I also failed to have found any of 'my' Kippaxes at Hill Lane, but I'll attempt to match up the stones with my tree later.

Having finished my photographing at Hill Lane, I headed back to Haggate which I had explored on an earlier visit - apart from the land behind the fence. I had expected there to be a handful of graves behind the fence and then, presumably, easy sighting of the remains of the old church - the church that my ancestors had attended. Oh, how wrong I was!

Within a few feet I'd come close to falling down a seemingly bottomless grave, which really gave me the willies! Eventually I slowly - oh so slowly! - edged around the corner and was quite stunned by the overgrowth and size of the area of Halifax Road's burial ground. I had, as I said, endeavoured to attempt to get to as many of the headstones as I could, for there really is no excuse for not attempting to view all of the primary sources that are at one’s disposal when genealogising. Especially when they’re all within a few dozen feet of you!

Came across the family grave of James and Mary Kippax, and then that of the young children of Robert and Ann who I again thought were of my direct line, but of course, they sadly were not. Found a very secreted grave which I’d noticed on this website before – that of Sarah, wife of Benjamin K, and dug a little deeper to make sure I had the date correct – May 16th 1853, aged 57. Very much an ‘old’ Kippax then, and Benjamin is the 2nd cousin of ‘my’ Sarah’s father, but still quite distant. I dug further and further into the undergrowth and found a few graves that possibly hadn’t been disturbed in some time, so I snapped them too – James Watson, Sarah White(head?), John Edward Jones, William Simpson, Richard Sanderson, and finally the rather exciting Paul and Phoebe Nuttall (what modern names!) who are of the same era as my Ann Nuttall. After this, I had a look around the two entrances to the old churchyard. One of them was via the road, and came up by a fairly steep set of steps. The path could just about be made out, when one felt along the side of it with one’s hands. The other entrance was up a path to the left of this main path. A large wall on the left of this 2nd path (and continues up the left hand side of the main path). I had thought at one point that this might be the remains of the old church, but of course it isn’t. This left the assumption that the church must be the part to the right of the main (road) path. The bit without gravestones that was entirely covered in undergrowth. I started to make my way in and found myself on a series of fairly narrow (just wide enough for two feet) stone slabs. I wondered whether this was church foundations (too smooth) or a path (too narrow) and figured that it was probably a wall to one side of a path. I realised this almost too late as, at one point, I almost fell into the brambles below. Gradually my way forehead became more and more tricky and, cut rather to shreds (despite my sensible dress for the day) I had to retreat.

I’m quite sad that I wasn’t able to access any of the site of the old church at all, but I’m fairly sure I know where it is. Maybe some thick gardening gloves and secateurs might help at some point? I’d also dearly love to make sure that every grave in that place has been transcribed, as it can’t be many more years before they’re all buried deep underneath the nature that’s fast taking them over.

I’d like to send my photos of my visits to the three cemeteries available to the website. To whom should they be sent? Hopefully at least one of them might be of some use to someone out there!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Headstone 66L Hill Lane Chapel, Lane Bottom. James Kippax buried with wife Mary, daughter Sarah Ellen, daughter Mary Ann, Betty second wife, and Mary Parker first wifes mother.
Headstone 66L reads
Jas Kippax of Holt Hill died March 12th 1895 (78).
Mary his wife died nov 9th 1857 (38)
Sarah Ellen their dughter died Jan 5th 1854 (11)
Mary Ann their daughter died march 28th 1915 (67)
Betty the second wife of Jas Kippax died Dec 12th 1890 (60)
Mary Parker died 5th Jan 1854 (67)

Mary Parker and her grandaughter Sarah Ellen died in bed together from smoke inhalation 5th Jan 1854 at Hill End. Below is the article from the paper.
Burnley Advertiser Jan 1854
Death By Suffocation
About 7 o'clock on the morning of Thursday, the 5th inst., An old woman at Hill-End, near Hag-gate, aged 67years, named Mary Parker, and her grand-daughter, Sarah Ellen Kippax, aged 11 years, were found dead in bed. Her son James Parker had been at her house at half past four o'clock p.m. on the day before, when his mother complained of being ill in consequence of a chimney smoking very much, which it always did when the wind blew in the same direction as on Wednesday last. The girl was in the habit of sleeping with her grandmother for company, and when last seen alive was quite well. A person named John Barler went to the house at seven o'clock on Thursday Morning; he knocked several times and received no answer, and suspecting that there was something wrong, he got assistance, and broke open the door, and then found the two dead in bed. Mr Smirthwaite, Surgeon was called in, and on examining the bodies gave it as his opinion that death had been caused by suffocation by smoke.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:36 pm 
Natural Geek

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Thanks for those!

I do like 'odd' grave combinations like that of James K and his first wife's mother. My Great Grandparents Bray, for example, are in a four person grave with only their son-in-law for company. No-one's entirely sure how he ended up there, given the fact that Great Granny Bray is supposed to have detested him!


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