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 Post subject: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
This is an open query to anyone who can help. Ref: building No 11 Foreside Barrowford. Seen on Google maps as a large building set at 45 degrees North/ South. I think it's current use is a residential home. Clearly an old building with some interesting features.
1 When was it built.
2 Who lived there around 1840. Preferably with his occupation.
I suspect, a hunch really, that it was one of the local industrialist who was strongly affiliated to the Methodist movement.
Any suggestions would be most welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
I have given this query my best shot - but without much success! Here is what I have found - perhaps you have already tried my various lines of enquiry.

I googled 'Care Home higherford' and found Brookdell at Fore Side, Barrowford, Nelson BB9 6AB on the website: www.carehome.co.uk.

I then found the folllowing reference on page 35 of www.pendle.gov.uk/.../higherford_conser ... _appraisal

6.40 Brook Dell House, 11 Foreside
Located just to the rear of the listed building at 13-15 Foreside, this is an attractive and substantial house of stone with stone slate roof, dating from the early 19th century. It is set back behind imposing stone gate piers, which introduce a note of formality onto Foreside between the vernacular buildings to either side.

I also found a photograph of Brook Dell House on Robert Wade's Flickr pages.

I then looked for the house name Brookdell in census returns for 1841 to 1901 (using Ancestry). Having had no luck in 1841, I then worked backwards from 1901.

Brook Dell appears as an address in 1901 (Lancashire, Barrowford, district 32, Higherford part of: bottom of p. 14) and 1891 (Lancashire, Barrowford, district 47, Barrowford part of: bottom of p. 17

I have failed to find Brook Dell (or Fore Side/ Foreside) in any earlier census. However, I see no reason to disbelieve the reference which tells us that the house in question was built in the early 19th century.

I have not been able to find an earlier name for the house - all the names of nearby houses that I found in the 1841 census can be tracked to more recent times. It seems to me that the earlier census enumerators just didn't bother to give the house a name - which wouldn't be unusual. (I did a similar search for a farm in Harrow, Middlesex, now occupied by one of my nieces, which for most of the 19th century was entered just as an ordinary house.)

Looking at the 1841 and 1851 censuses, on what I think are the most likely pages, I can see no obvious candidates for the occupants of this grander house. I will give the references here, but if you don't have access to Ancestry, I would be happy to send you screenshots of what I think are the most likely pages (in the vicinity of Bank House and Syke House, which are listed near Brookdell House in the later censuses)

1841 census: Lancashire, Whalley, Colne, district 28, page 2

1851 census: Lancashire, Barrowford, district 5c, page 3

(I don't know if there is a better way, but to search a census by location, I start by typing the place name into the box labelled location, then click on the details of whatever person turns up to get a census page. Once I have this I go to page 1 to check if I am in the right part of town. If not, then I use the dropdown menu at the top of the page to change the district number.)

This has been an interesting diversion for me. Now I'll go back to my own research - currently in Bury, which I scarcely know.

Happy hunting,
Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
Ruth. Thank you a most interesting reply. I would have put the house at earlier than "early 19th century" although it looks as though its had a lower extension built on. This extension carries a sundial celebrating a centenary of 1839. This detail cannot be seen on the Flickr images. The extension also cuts into the back of the cottages fronting Foreside dated 1755. This is a most peculiar arrangement begging the question of which came first.

Obviously a lot more work needs to be done. Thanks for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:58 am 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
I look forward to reading that you, or someone else, has been able to shed more light on this interesting building. I do though fear that the comparative lack of detail in the Barrowford conservation area appraisal document may be a bad sign - if the compilers had been able to find more information I think they would have included it.

Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:19 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 13
Thomas and Grace Grimshaw lived at Crow Tree's on Forside, Thomas had a sister called Grace who married Richard Harper he built Brookdell on land belonging to Crow tree's farm.It would be built early 19'th century.Sylvia
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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Following Sylviac's lead I have just looked up the Harper Grimshaw marriage on Lancs online parish clerks. The date was a bit later than I expected, suggesting other people lived at Brook Dell before them.

Marriage: 1 Sep 1858 St Thomas, Barrowford, Lancs.
Richard Harper, Gentleman - Full age Bachelor of Carlton
Grace Grimshaw - Full age Spinster of Barrowford
Groom's Father: Richard Harper, Gentleman
Bride's Father: James Grimshaw, Cotton Spinner
Witness: Sarah Sutcliffe; Mary Crossley; Thos. Grimshaw; ? Grimshaw; Richard Crossley
Witness: Elizabeth Grimshaw
Married by Licence by: Samuel Smith Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1844 - 1900, Page 15, Entry 30
Source: LDS Film 1471022

In the 1851 census, I have found Grase (sic), aged 24, living at CrowTrees, with several brothers and sisters and two servants in the household of her brother Nicholas Grimshaw. In 1841 the same sibling group was at Beanfield (another Grimshaw residence, researched by Doreen Crowther who then lived there) in the household of their presumed father James Grimshaw. (An interesting aside for me was that the enumerator for Barrowford in 1841 was a Grimshaw - though I can't read the initial.)

In 1861 Grace and Richard Harper are entered as visitors, staying in the household of her brother Thomas, aged 28 and sister Elizabeth at Crow Trees., Barrowford. Richard is described as Landed Prop; Thomas as Cotton spinner.

In 1871 Grace and Richard are listed just as living at Higherford (perhaps this is when they lived at Brook Dell?). Richard is now described as Cotton spinner employing 62 people (perhaps in business with Thomas, his brother in law?). Their son, Richard Walter Harper, aged 8, was born in Lothersdale, suggesting they may have lived there in the 1860s.

So I think we still don't know who lived at Brook Dell c. 1840. It seems very likely to me that it was a Grimshaw or Grimshaw relative.

Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:55 am
Posts: 13
Richard Harper who built Brookdell also built The Willow's at Lothersdale. The Grimshaw's were a musical family and were involved with the Methodist Church at Higherford.


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Confirmation of the Lothersdale link makes me think we have the right family.

However, I think the Richard Harper who married Grace Grimshaw in 1858 is too young to have built Brook Dell. This Richard appears on censuses as Richard William Harper and was born c. 1833. I have also found, on FamilySearch, what looks like his christening: Richard William Harper, at Kildwick on 22 Sep 1833.

I think it is more likely that Brook Dell was built by the above Richard Harper's father, who was also called Richard (see Richard and Grace's marriage record) but with the middle name of Walters. The christening of Richard William Harper in 1833 gives his father's name as Richard Walters Harper.

I have also found on Family Search a christening for Richard Harper (assumed to be Richard Walters Harper), at Kildwick on 15 July 1810 (born 25 Sep 1807). This gives his father's name as Robert Walters Harper.

I still haven't discovered who actually lived at Brook Dell in 1841!

Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
This is really good stuff from both Sylviac and Ruth. The Grimshaw's have their pedigree listed in "Whitaker's History of Whalley".
Quote..
Thomas Grimshaw of Higham afterwards at Crow Trees in Barrowford born March 1765, died 11 Feb 1842 Married Grace, dau of Abraham Gibson, of Bridgeroyd in Stansfield Co York. died 1 Sep 1842.
They had several children one of which was called Grace.

All this is interlinked with with other members of the family, brothers, sisters and half brothers, including Nicholas Parker of Slaidburn.

All very interesting but far too complicated to define who lived at Brook Del or should we now be considering its original name to be Crow Trees. In those days it was common to call rookeries "Crows".

Back to the sundial. See below. Centenary Dial 1839. (Initially carved as Centanery).

The design is such to give the correct time in its present location ie: a bespoke sundial.

The only Centenary I could think of and hence my guess at a Methodist connection was John Wesley who on his return to England set out his preachers throughout England in 1739. This was then commemorated in Barrowford in 1839.

Of course I may be wrong. (again)


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:45 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
I still haven't cracked the Crow Trees/ Brook Dell riddle. It seems to be not at all clear which house, or part of a house, was called what when.

Meanwhile, I agree that the centenary sundial most probably commemorates the beginnings of Methodism. Wikipedia gives the following list of events in the UK in 1739 - and none of the others looks at all promising!

14 January - Britain and Spain sign the Convention of Pardo.[1]
16 January - First performance of George Frideric Handel's oratorio Saul at the King's Theatre, Haymarket, London.[1]
February - George Whitefield first preaches in the open air, to miners at Kingswood, South Gloucestershire.
April - John Wesley first preaches in the open air, at Whitefield's invitation.
4 April - First performance of Handel's oratorio Israel in Egypt at the King's Theatre, London.[1]
12 May - John Wesley lays the foundation stone of the New Room, Bristol, the world's first Methodist meeting house.[2]
17 October - The Foundling Hospital is created in London by Thomas Coram.[1]
23 October - Britain declares war on Spain. This becomes known as the War of Jenkins' Ear.[1]
20–22 November - War of Jenkins' Ear: Battle of Porto Bello: British marine forces capture the Panamanian silver
exporting town of Porto Bello from the Spanish.[1]
December to February 1740 - The 'Great Frost': unusually harsh winter in southern England and Ireland.[3]

I also Googled the inscription from the sundial - and found it is a version of a line from Psalm 102. I don't know which version was preferred by 19th century Wesleyans. The following, slightly different version, comes from the King James Bible:
My days are like a shadow that declineth; and I am withered like grass.

Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
Just looking at the MARIO Lancashire maps. Crow Trees is situated about 100 yards farther along Fore Side at the start of Barleydale Rd. Unfortunately, both houses are shown on this map but the Brook Del house looks like it may have been part of an old barn before the newer extension was built on.

Your bible quote seems to fit the words on the sundial. Getting nearer!


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
My husband and I also had a look yesterday at Old Maps and Google Earth - he is better at manipulating maps than me. We also saw what appear to be two distinct groups of buildings - perhaps Crow Trees 'Farm' and Crow Trees 'House', with Brook Dell maybe added on to the southernmost one of them (i.e. the one that abuts the cottages on Fore Side).

I have tried tracking the names Crow Trees and Brook Dell through all the censuses to look for any clues - with mixed success (as my husband pointed out to me, this is not really what the censuses are designed for) - but with no access to deeds, it seemed worth a good try!

In 1841, there are 3 or 4 separate households described as at Crow Trees,. The only one I think is relevant is that containing Thomas Grimshaw, his wife Grace and daughter Harriet. My guess is that this is the southernmost house, with the sun dial put up by Thomas.

In 1851, there is one household described as being at Crow Trees, that of Nicholas Grimshaw (maltster) and 4 siblings, plus a cow man and a housemaid. (Does the presence of a cow man suggest that this was the 'farm' (the northernmost building) not the 'house' to the south - or were they both farms?

In 1861, there are two households at Crow Trees:
1) occupied by Betty Dunderdale, widow, aged 70 and her grandson David, aged 18, a gardener. (Is this perhaps a cottage, or a separate dwelling within the main house, or farm?)
2) household of Thomas Grimshaw (cotton spinner) and his sister Elizabeth. Also present, as visitors are Richard William Harper, aged 27, wife Grace, aged 34, and Thomas Crossley, aged 2 (probably a nephew).

Unfortunately, in 1871, all the relevant consecutive households are simply described as Higherford. So we don't know who is actually living where:
1) Household of Richard Dunderdale (confectioner)
2) Household of Thomas Grimshaw, 38, unmarried, landowner (alone)
3) Household of David Dunderdale (see also 1861), 28, now married
4) Household of Nicholas Strickland, farmer of 25 acres and 'malster'
5) Household of Thomas Nutter, farmer of 20 acres
6) Household of Richard William Harper, 37, cotton spinner employing 62 people; wife Grace, 44; son Richard Walter, 8, niece Ellen Elizabeth Mason, 20, 1 domestic servant.

In 1881, only 1 household (that of Thomas Grimshaw) is described as Crow Trees. None of the other houses in the vicinity (including that occupied by the Harper household) is named. In order:
1) Richard W(illiam) Harper, head, aged 47, now described as a commercial traveller; wife Grace, 54; son Richard Walter, 18, book keeper at a mill.
2) John Perth, 52, groom, dom. servant (alone)
3) John Starkie, 26, farm servant + wife and daughter
4) William Nutter, 55, farmer of 34 acres + wife and 4 children
5) Crow Trees: Thomas Grimshaw, 48, cotton yarn agent, wife Frances, 4 children, 1 domestic servant

Looking back at the census entries for 1871 and 1881, my guess is that Richard William Harper and family are now living at what will appear on later censuses as Brook Dell. Sylvia gave us the information that Brook Dell was built by Richard Harper, husband of Grace. To fit in with our sun dial date of 1839, I had suggested that it was an earlier Richard Harper who had built what became known as Brook Dell. Now I wonder whether Richard Harper, husband of Grace, substantially remodelled (or rebuilt) part of the southernmost building (Crow Trees House, or Farm?!) and renamed it Brook Dell. The photo on Flickr, with the house name Brook Dell on the gate pillar, shows a part of the house that looks very similar to me to houses on Keighley Road, Colne which I am pretty sure were built in the late 19th century.


In 1891, there two households at 'The Crow Trees' (probably at the northernmost 'Farm') plus a Harper household at what is now for the first time named as Brook Dell.
1) The Crow Trees: headed by Mary F. Grimshaw, aged 18, described as living on own means; four younger siblings; and an uncle Thomas H. Gard, born Cork, Ireland (as was Mary's mother).
2) The Crow Trees: a household of one: that of Emily W. Morris, widow 29, living on own means, born Ireland. (I suspect that she was in the same building as household 1, and there to help look after the teenage Grimshaws.
3) Brook Dell: Richard W Harper, 28, cashier at cotton mill; wife Clara, visitor Richard Crossley, 70, (probably a relative, as a Crossley child appears in an earlier census); and a domestic servant. (Note: this Richard W is Richard Walter, the son of Richard William Harper and Grace.)

By 1901 there are no Grimshaws or Harpers at Crow Trees or Brook Dell. Mary Grimshaw and siblings are in the household of their aunt, Elizabeth Bracewell, widow, 67, at Thorny Clough, Higherford. Richard Walter Harper and family are in Flixton (Eccles). The 1901 census has three separate households and addresses (though I wonder if two of them are adjacent and in different parts of what is now called Brook Dell?)
1) Brook Dell is occupied by Ezra Greenwood, aged 27, book keeper at cotton mill, wife Emily, son aged 1, and 1 domestic servant. Not a grand household by the look of it.
2) Crow Trees Farm is occupied by John Carr, 45, farmer, wife and 5 children
3) Crow Trees House is occupied by William Henry Wilkinson, 45, architect and surveyor, employer, + wife Jane and 6 daughters. (This looks a much grander household than that described as Brook Dell.)

To complete the picture from the censuses (such as it is!), I have also looked up 191l. (Barrowford, book 28, starting on page 220)
1) Brook Dell: still occupied by the Dugdales: Ezra (away); Emily, child, sister, nephew and a servant
2) Crow Trees Farm, still John Carr, wife and 3 children
3) Crow Trees House, now occupied by William Henry Atkinson, 55, architect, employer, b. Burnley; wife Jane, b. Colne; and 5 daughters (2 cert. teachers and 1 a pupil teacher) all born Colne.

My compulsion to tie up loose ends, build pictures of family groups, and track down houses has taken me a long way from Plaque's original enquiry relating to the sun dial. However, I have found the journey very interesting - even if my results are too complicated for any sane person to waste their time on.

Now, I should go back to researching a branch of my family tree in Walmersley, Bury. Never having been there, I am finding it much less compelling than looking at Higherford, which I knew as a child growing up in Barrowford Road, Colne.

Ruth


Last edited by Ruth on Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
I know the feeling about getting wrapped up in this sort of research. I did a full family tree on the Dougdale's of Lowerhouse just because I couldn't understand where the Coat of Arms displayed at Rosehill House Hotel Burnley came from. Your comment about the Dougdale's at Barrowford is interesting because there was an off shoot that was initially based in Nelson who I couldn't track. But that's another story.

It may be that a visit down to Brook Del is called for. I could always go on the pretext of someone with a mild touch of insanity looking for a retirement home.

By-the -way The Grimshaw family established the Grimshaw's brewery at Burnley and re-built the Talbot Hotel. That's another fine mess I got myself into.

Thanks for all the work that you have done.


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:04 pm
Posts: 172
Many thanks Plaques for arousing my interest in this particular puzzle.

Your reply made me smile. I think I too may be tempted to find a pretext to have a quick look round Brook Dell next time I am in Lancashire!

Ruth


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 Post subject: Re: Foreside Barrowford.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:55 pm
Posts: 175
Wondered round the Foreside area again mainly to get a grasp of what the buildings looked like. In talking to the present owners of the "Crow Trees", who amazingly turned out to be a work colleague from over 50 years ago, it became clear that it would be difficult to pin point any one specific owner or builder. The outcome was extremely useful but as they explained this particular area grew more or less unregulated with various buildings being added at different times. The "Crow Trees" initially owned by the Bulcock's became part of the Grimshaw estate on their uncles death. The whole area including what was to become Brookdell being part of the estate. Any more information on this subject will be most welcome.


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