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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:18 pm
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Hi, it's been many years since I visited the Society Forum, whilst I have been investigating other areas of my family, however I am back on the trail of my Great Grandmother Alice Foster and her ancestors. As a result of what I have found on her already she has a tarnished reputation in my immediate family, which makes her very interesting indeed!

Alice was born in Briercliffe 1877 to Robert Foster (1846-1909) and Alice Kippax (1846-1919). In 1898 she married my Great Grandfather, John Elliott Fogg.

My current line of enquiry is all around how this family seemingly 'fell out' and how they managed to get in the pickle that they did. I don't know where to go to find out more, and I doubt I will ever know, but I would love your take on the story!

The headline facts that I know, in chronological order, are as follows:

1877 - Alice born to Robert and Alice. In her early years they lived on Colville Street and then Townley Street.
1892 - Baptised at St. James, Briercliffe.
1898 - Age 21, Alice married John Elliott Fogg at St Matthew's in Bolton. John is from a very wealthy and influential family from Edgworth, Bolton. The same year they had a son, John William, who is possibly named after Alice's brother.
1901 - Another son born, Thomas, my Grandfather.
1901 - Robert Foster, Alice's father, is listed on the census at 76 Burnley Road as "living on own means", when previously he was listed a Cotton Weaver.
1904 - Another son is born, Frederick. The same year, Great Grandfather John Elliott is admitted in to Whittington Lunatic Asylum. He is categorised a Lunatic and a Pauper after being found wandering the streets in a confused state.
1908 - Alice is in Bolton (Fishpool) WorkHouse with her three children, pregnant and destitute. Mother and father are still alive and seemingly 'well off'.
1909 - Another son, Albert, is born in the WorkHouse. John Elliott is still in the Asylum and has been for five years.
1909 - Alice's father, Robert, dies and probate reveals he leaves £1,405 to his wife and two adult sons.
1911 - Alice is back in the WorkHouse with her children. At the time of the census she is living as a boarder, but not with her children, who are still in the WorkHouse (apart from my Grandfather who I am unable to find!)
1914 - Alice has a daughter, Mary. The father is Michael Grogan.
1915 - Alice has her youngest son, Peter. The father is Michael Grogan.
1917 - John Elliott Fogg dies in Whittingham Asylum, of Pneumonia. He is buried with his sister in St Peters Churchyard, Bolton.
1919 - Alice's mother, Alice, dies and leaves £2,702 to the same sons that received inheritance from their father.
1934 - Alice dies in hospital, in Bolton, of Pneumonia and Bronchitis. Her address at the time is on the same street in which she lived with John Elliott on 1901 census She is buried with Michael Grogan in Tonge Cemetery, Bolton.

The above raises questions for me:
* Did Robert Foster receive a payment from John Elliott Fogg's family when they married, in order for him to subsequently live upon independent means?
* How did John Elliott and Alice become paupers when both John Elliott and Alice's parents seemingly had money? Would family ordinarily help in these circumstances, why didn't they?
* Alice has at least one son whilst her husband is in the Lunatic Asylum, who is the father?

If anyone has anything to add, or even comment upon, I would love to hear from you.

Angela Nichols (nee Fogg)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:00 pm 
Spider Lady
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:23 pm
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Location: Staffordshire
What a mystery! Is there nothing in newspapers anywhere? Have you contacted Lancashire archives at Preston to see if they can suggest where to turn/what to look at?

For the mystery child born during the years John Elliot is in the asylum, could Alice have turned to prostitution in desperation? Or is he also a Grogan child but unable to register him as such for some reason?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:18 pm
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Mel wrote:
What a mystery! Is there nothing in newspapers anywhere? Have you contacted Lancashire archives at Preston to see if they can suggest where to turn/what to look at?

For the mystery child born during the years John Elliot is in the asylum, could Alice have turned to prostitution in desperation? Or is he also a Grogan child but unable to register him as such for some reason?


I have looked for answers within the newspaper collection on Find My Past for these two and can't find anything, not even their marriage, which I thought may be remarkable if money was changing hands at the time, or because they were a notable family. Alas not.
He could be a Grogan child of course, or he could be anybody's... my father knew him and said he didn't look like any of the Foggs, and seeing there is nothing to indicate that John Elliott had been released during his stay, it sounds like he is definitely not his.
You suggestion of Lancashire Archive help is a really good one. We haven't been over for a while so I think it's time I took a little trip to Preston.

Thanks for your comments Mel, much appreciated.
Angela


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:28 am
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Location: Near Chorley
I can't add anything to this Angela, but found reading it fascinating. I am a Kippax, and my line has lived in and around Briercliffe for 100s of years. I'm going to have to have a dig around about this, even if only to be connected to a fascinating tale.
Have you contacted the Bolton Family History Society, they have a Facebook page?

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