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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:08 am 
Sage of Simonstone
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Location: Burnley
When – 6 January 1840
Where – St Peter’s Church Burnley
Groom – John Nutter (full), bachelor, weaver, Lane House, Briercliffe
Bride – Alice Leaver (full) Spinster, of Blackhouse Lane Briercliffe
Grooms father – Robert Nutter, weaver
Brides father – Bannister Leaver, weaver

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:22 pm 
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I have a bit of a problem with the Alice Leaver marriage posted above and wonder if anyone has any suggestions.

Bannister Leaver had 11 children that we know of, but we don’t have an Alice. The births of the first 10 children are on the Haggate Chapel records and, as Alice would have been around number 5 or 6 I would have expected her to be there.
Alice's marriage took place in 1840 but there is no Alice Nutter on the 1841 census (or any other for that matter). Not is there an Alice Nutter death between the marriage in January 1840 and the census in 1841.
However John Nutter, weaver, of Lanehouse Briercliffe, does appear on the 1841-1891 censuses, but with wife Olive. In 1841 there are also 2 Leaver children in the household.
Bannister Leaver did have a daughter, Olive, of around the same age as I would expect Alice to be. She doesn’t appear on any censuses, nor is there a recorded death or marriage for her.
My problem is this: the only record of Alice is a marriage. On the other hand I have an Olive Leaver who fits all the criteria for John Nutter’s wife. Reinforced by the presence of 2 Leaver children in his household at the 1841 census. (one of them is still there in 1851, shown as aged 72 but this is a transcription error and should be age 12).
How possible is it that there’s an error on the marriage record and ‘Alice’ should actually read ‘Olive’? I can’t see it myself but I’m running out of ideas. Anyone any other ideas? :? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:34 pm 
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It is possible for the marriage record to contain an error Maureen. It wouldn't be the first time.

It does sound like Olive and Alice could be the same person.
Did Alice/Olive sign the certificate? What does the signature look like?

How many times have you been writing something while your mind was elsewhere and written what is going through your mind instead of what you should really be putting? I know I have done it.
(Go on...tell me it is just me that is nuts!)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Maureen, I agree with Mel, I think it is the same person. Do you have a copy of the cert? Olive and Alice could easily be mistaken if the writing isn't good.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:15 pm 
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I don't have a copy of the certificate, but I have seen the microfilm of the parish register. Since I was looking for Olive at the time, I did look twice when I found Alice and it certainly looked like Alice. I can't remember whether the bride signed it or not. Kris took photos of some of the entries and I'm hoping this was one of them. I'll find out when he's back in the land of the e-living. Otherwise it's back down the library.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:21 pm 
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I took copies of everything he had yesterday Maureen. I'll have a look if it is amongst them.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Found it.

It definitely says Alice but Alice/Olive didn't sign. It was a X.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Those of us old enough will remember putting an X on football coupons to signify no publicity. Maybe Olive wanted anonymity at her wedding to keep the paparrazzi away so had the banns read as Alice and then signed with the X for no publicity.

By the way Mel, I forgot to note the names of the witnesses. Can you help please? Maybe there's a clue there?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:43 pm 
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I'll email the image to you Maureen.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:03 pm 
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Can I have a look? I love a mystery, AND, it is great when it is someone elses and not mine, funny how you can be so much more open minded with someone elses problem.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Email on way Gloria

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Usually in those days, the names were passed down, are there any Olives in the later years that you know of, or Alices? Possibly Olive/Alice's grandaughter, gt grandaughter.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:15 pm 
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1851 census living in Blackhouse Lane----you have probably seen this
Name Age
Bunister Leaver 9
Hanah Leaver 22
John Leaver 49
John Leaver 19
Olive Leaver 13
Sarah Leaver 50
Richard Shonas 41

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:31 pm 
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Wonder if the clerk writing out the cert misheard them, they could have had very broad accents, coming from the back of nowhere----as like that as to where sum of us cum from !!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:35 pm 
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You have a braod accent Gloria...can't say I have noticed if Maureen has.
I have no accent of course (although Kris reckons he can understand you lot better than he understands me!)

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